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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 February 2021

03 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Unexplained Wealth Orders (Donald Trump)
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to open for Labour in this debate on a motion that

“calls on the Scottish Ministers to use their powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to seek the grant of an Unexplained Wealth Order in respect of Donald Trump’s property transactions in Scotland.”

Labour supports the motion and agree that there are valid questions to be answered about the acquisition and exploitation of Scottish property by former President of the United States Donald Trump.

The case for doing so has been set out by Patrick Harvie and by the campaign group Avaaz, which in 2019 published a full report on the need to launch an unexplained wealth order investigation into Donald Trump’s all-cash purchase of Turnberry golf course, as well as a legal analysis of why an unexplained wealth order is appropriate in this instance. Given the wealth of evidence in relation to financial misconduct by the former President—which I cannot go into now, because if I did, we would be here all day—I do not see why the Scottish Government is so hesitant to pursue that course of action.

The Government’s amendment says that it

“believes that, to preserve the rule of law, there must not be political interference in the enforcement of the law”.

However, the Criminal Finances Act 2017, which introduced unexplained wealth orders, clearly states:

“The Court of Session may, on an application made by the Scottish Ministers, make an unexplained wealth order in respect of any property if the court is satisfied that each of the requirements for the making of the order is fulfilled.”

The legal claim for the Scottish Government to seek an unexplained wealth order is quite clear, so it begs the question: why is the Scottish Government so hesitant to use the powers that are available to it? I find it quite amazing that those powers have never been used in Scotland. We have at our disposal a means to target politically exposed persons or those involved with serious crime to explain how certain property ownership came about. I do not think that it is unreasonable that an action that could be used in Scotland is more fully used, and certainly in relation to Trump, given the massive question mark over so much of his financial affairs. I do not buy what the cabinet secretary says. We will support the motion, and I hope that the Government will look at the issue again.

16:52  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a Scottish Green Party debate on motion S5M-24030, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on unexplained wealth orders, Donald Trump. 1...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
This is a story that goes back a long way. In previous chapters, we saw two successive First Ministers—Jack McConnell and Alex Salmond—actively courting the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Before I go into the detail of the motion and our amendment, let me make it clear that, frankly, I find former President Donald Trump to be a deplorable indi...
Patrick Harvie Green
I entirely recognise that the Scottish Government is entitled to delegate certain decisions to the civil recovery unit or the Lord Advocate, but that does no...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, Patrick Harvie is incorrect. He is asking the Cabinet to make a political decision on instigating an investigation into an individual. I have sat in many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I cannot recall whether you moved your amendment, cabinet secretary.
Humza Yousaf SNP
I move amendment S5M-24030.1, to leave out from “calls” to end and insert: “notes the calls on the Scottish Ministers to use powers under the Proceeds of Cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You may have moved it twice, but so be it. 16:45
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
With just four minutes to contribute to the debate, I shall be brief. I remind members that I am a member of the legal profession, although I am an employme...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really do not have time. Crown Office investigations must not, of course, be motivated by political pressure, and trying to influence the Crown Office wou...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open for Labour in this debate on a motion that “calls on the Scottish Ministers to use their powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Let us be clear: the unexplained wealth order was specifically designed to bring transparency to the murkiest of dealings. All that today’s motion does is ca...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Like other members, my main concern is Covid, the vaccination programme, and bringing the pandemic under control. However, even with the pandemic consuming t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am glad that you noticed the time, Ms Harper. You made a very interesting contribution, although I do not know whether you actually spoke to the amendment....
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to hear that, Presiding Officer. Like most members, I celebrated the results of the US presidential election and counted down the days to Joe B...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is in his last seconds.
Colin Smyth Lab
I was literally on my last sentence, but I am sure that the cabinet secretary will pick up on the point that he was going to make in his closing speech. I b...
Alex Rowley Lab
Emma Harper made an interesting point about Trump and his impact on America, which is now a deeply divided country—it is the divided states of America. There...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
By now, unexplained wealth orders are a well-established part of Scotland’s ability to tackle criminal wealth and property retention but, as a legal process,...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will address some of the remarks that have been made in members’ speeches. It seems that we all have a universal dislike of former President, Donald Trump....
Patrick Harvie Green
I thank members for taking part in what was a deliberately short debate—partly because of the need to prioritise the Covid debate and partly because the issu...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to make sure that Mr Harvie is not insinuating that, if the former President was a person of colour, we would somehow treat him any differently, becau...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that a country that is less powerful than the US would be treated very differently. I do not lay that at the cabinet secretary‘s door, as he has said...