Committee
Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee 26 January 2021
26 Jan 2021 · S5 · Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
The amendments that are in the group will address the recommendation that the committee made in paragraph 84 of its stage 1 report, in which it asked the Scottish Government to reflect on whether there was scope to introduce at stage 2 an appeals process for heat networks licences. I agree that we can address that today. It is important for businesses to be treated fairly by the new regulatory system that the bill will create. Amendment 5 provides the Scottish ministers with powers to amplify or expand on the procedural protections that will apply before a licence can be revoked under section 11. That section makes provision about the revocation of a licence, to give licence holders a degree of certainty that licences cannot be revoked without good reason. Without amendment 5, any revocation process would be limited to what section 11 provides for. It is necessary to have the flexibility to modify the revocations process, should that be required in the future. It may be, for example, that other persons should be informed of the licensing authority’s intention to revoke a licence or that a process should be set out for considering representations. In any event, the powers will be there to ensure that any further procedural protections that are considered appropriate can be set out in legislation, rather than being simply administrative arrangements. Amendment 6 creates a new power for the Scottish ministers to establish an appeals process against the revocation of heat networks licences. I appreciate that the power is broad, but subsection (2) of the proposed new section provides examples of the matters that could feature in regulations and therefore in the appeals process. They include: who may appeal; why an appeal may be brought; how appeals are to be lodged; the information that may be required; and how decisions are to be determined. Such regulations would also specify who heard appeals. We intend to use the powers under section 4 to specify a body to act as the licensing authority under the bill, which means that the Scottish ministers will not be responsible for administering the licensing system. In turn, that creates the opportunity for regulations to be laid under the proposed new section in amendment 6 for the Scottish ministers to appropriately determine the merits of a decision that the licensing authority made to revoke a licence. Given the broad consensus that Ofgem would be suited to the role of licensing authority, assurances are being sought from UK ministers, as the committee might be aware, about our request to the UK Government for powers to amend Ofgem’s role and about the timescales for the necessary legislation. Those assurances would be welcome. I repeat that our intention is that the Scottish ministers would hear appeals about the revocation of heat networks licences by a third-party licensing authority, but I offer those comments for clarity on the need for subsection (3) of the proposed new section. I urge members to support each amendment in the group. I move amendment 5.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Gordon Lindhurst)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2021 of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. Agenda item 1 is consideration of the Heat Networks (S...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is in a group on its own.
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
Good morning. Section 1(7) of the bill as introduced enables the Scottish ministers to “modify the meaning ... of ‘heat network’, ‘district heat network’ or...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on fuel poverty: contributing to fuel poverty targets and consulting the Scottish fuel poverty advisory panel. Amendment 2, in the name of ...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
This group of amendments seeks to meet the recommendations in paragraphs 131 and 132 of the committee’s stage 1 report, which invited me to “reflect on the ...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the minister’s comments. A lot of that sounded quite technical but, in essence, it is quite simple: we must have regard to fuel poverty and ensure ...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
As we sit here on a cold January morning, it is tragic that there are thousands of people all over Scotland who are cold and living in fuel poverty. The Gove...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
I agree totally with my colleagues. We must all care about fuel poverty and take the time to resolve it. Perhaps the United Kingdom Government could look at ...
The Convener
Con
I invite the minister to wind up.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank members for their positive remarks. I also thank the committee and witnesses who gave evidence, because I hope that they have helped us to strengthen...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 145, in the name of Claudia Beamish, is grouped with amendments 149 and 152. Alex Rowley will move amendment 145 and speak to all the amendments in...
Alex Rowley
Lab
Convener, my understanding is that my colleague Claudia Beamish has had discussions with the minister and, as a result, the intention is to lodge an amendmen...
The Convener
Con
Does any member object to amendment 145 being withdrawn?
Graham Simpson
Con
On a point of clarification, is Alex Rowley withdrawing all three amendments? 09:15
The Convener
Con
Mr Rowley, are you withdrawing all three amendments?
Alex Rowley
Lab
If that is the way to do it, yes.
The Convener
Con
I am happy for it to be done that way; I think that that is fine. Does any member object to Mr Rowley withdrawing those three amendments? As no member objec...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on heat networks licence standard conditions. Amendment 134, in the name of Alexander Burnett, is the only amendment in the group.
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Con
Good morning. Before I speak to amendment 134, I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, particularly in relation to my involvement in develo...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
Alexander Burnett has summed up the situation well, and I was pleased to work with him. Hopefully, we will be able to continue to work together to address th...
The Convener
Con
Mr Burnett, do you wish to press or withdraw amendment 134?
Alexander Burnett
Con
I will withdraw the amendment for the reasons stated, and I will look to resubmit it at stage 3. Amendment 134, by agreement, withdrawn. Section 6 agreed t...
The Convener
Con
Group 5 is on minor and technical amendments. Amendment 4, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, is grouped with amendments 7, 8, 39, 52 to 60, 128 and 129.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
Largely, the amendments in this group relate to drafting changes following the review of the bill and consequences of the amendments that have been discussed...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on revocation and appeals against revocation of heat networks licences. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 6.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
The amendments that are in the group will address the recommendation that the committee made in paragraph 84 of its stage 1 report, in which it asked the Sco...
Alexander Burnett
Con
I thank the minister for the set of amendments. They are in tandem with amendment 134, which I spoke about and did not press. The sector has looked for clari...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I welcome Mr Burnett’s comments. We will do all that we can to address his final point about trying to work the processes in tandem. I will bear that in mind...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on heat networks licences: existing heat networks. Amendment 146, in the name of Maurice Golden, is grouped with amendments 147 and 148.
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 146 addresses the obvious need for the Government to deal with retrospective changes to existing heat networks. That is a particularly unclear area...