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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 21 January 2021

21 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Scottish Hazards, along with trade unions and campaign lawyer Patrick McGuire from Thompsons Solicitors Scotland, has always said that families who are affected by workplace deaths are being denied justice. Humza Yousaf said today that he has

“a great deal of sympathy with families”,

but the clear message is that families need more than sympathy: they need a change in the law.

I will read out comments from Denise Christie, who is the head of the Fire Brigades Union Scotland. She says:

“The current legislation is completely ineffective. After 13 years there have been no prosecutions let alone convictions under the legislation in Scotland at all! The legislation is drafted in such a way that medium size or larger organisations are almost never likely to be prosecuted. We believe it protects companies from prosecution and fails workers and their families.”

That is the issue that Claire Baker, with a lot of support from others, has worked so hard to address.

It is absolutely appalling that the cabinet secretary has come to the chamber today with excuses, rather than looking at how we can take the bill to the next level—stage 2—and work to see whether the Government’s concerns can be addressed. That, at least, should be the principal starting point for the Government.

The FBU says that the

“The Health and Safety at Work Act has been a good piece of legislation, however, it doesn’t reflect the gravity of the crime. An organisation’s reputation is one of their most valuable assets. If a company is found guilty of s2 or s3 of the HSWA, it doesn’t have the same impact as being found guilty of culpable homicide!”,

which would cause reputational damage.

The FBU also says that

“organisations are now no longer deterred by the current legislation as they know that the chance of being prosecuted in Scotland under it is almost non-existent”.

I thank Claire Baker and the trade unions. We must sort this out. I appeal to the cabinet secretary to agree that the bill should go forward so that we can continue our discussions to fix its current weaknesses.

15:55  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23917, in the name of Claire Baker, on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I ask those who ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am very proud to be introducing this debate on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill today. Families across Scotland who have suffered the death of a love...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Adam Tomkins to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee for up to five minutes, please. 15:23
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
The Justice Committee is awash with legislation. Today, we have published our stage 1 report on the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill. Next week, w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin by saying that the Scottish Government has a great deal of sympathy with families who have lost a relative while attending their workplace. We apprec...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. The Scottish Conservatives will vote against the principles of the Culpable Homicide (Scotland)...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I begin by paying tribute to Claire Baker. Introducing a member’s bill takes tenacity and hard work and she has displayed both. The bill recognises that too...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I congratulate Claire Baker and her team on getting the bill this far. I am a signatory to the bill and the Scottish Green Party will support it at decision ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
In customary fashion, I thank Claire Baker for introducing the bill. As I said in relation to the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 15:47
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Culpable homicide legislation needs to be updated, and the bill has been introduced with the intention of doing that. Much of the case law and, indeed, the l...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives’ approach to the bill has been outlined by my colleague Liam Kerr. I need not repeat what he has said, but perhaps one or two comm...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Hazards, along with trade unions and campaign lawyer Patrick McGuire from Thompsons Solicitors Scotland, has always said that families who are affec...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Claire Baker for the work that she has put into a member’s bill that deals with an important issue and means so much to families who are aff...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, pay tribute to Claire Baker for the immense work that she has put into researching, consulting on and drafting this member’s bill, and I thank the Ju...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Humza Yousaf, who has up to four minutes. 16:03
Humza Yousaf SNP
I welcome today’s debate. I am disappointed by some of the characterisations in the debate, particularly from Labour members, and the suggestion that those w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse my interrupting, cabinet secretary, but you are difficult to hear. Can you speak closer to your microphone?
Humza Yousaf SNP
It has been suggested that those who, for good reasons, oppose the bill somehow do not understand the struggles of, or sympathise with the feelings of, the f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Humza Yousaf SNP
—after being found guilty at trial over a number of health and safety at work failures. In January 2017, Donald Craig, the manager of an access plant hire fi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Claire Baker to wind up the debate. I can give you up to five minutes, Ms Baker. 16:10
Claire Baker Lab
I thank members for their contributions to the debate. I recognise that the process of scrutinising the bill has been curtailed, and I appreciate the conside...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Ms Baker. That concludes the debate on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.