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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 21 January 2021

21 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

In customary fashion, I thank Claire Baker for introducing the bill. As I said in relation to the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Bill, which the Parliament passed earlier this week, no one should underestimate the work that is involved in introducing a member’s bill.

Although the Scottish Liberal Democrats cannot support the bill as proposed, for reasons that I will come to shortly, I make it clear that the issues and concerns that Claire Baker has highlighted through her bill are legitimate and require to be addressed. Indeed, I acknowledge the earlier campaigning and efforts of my friend and Claire Baker’s former colleague Karen Gillon, which led to the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007. It was recognised at the time that the act did not go as far as Karen Gillon and others had wanted, but a bridgehead was established.

As we know, the existing offence of corporate homicide, which was introduced by the 2007 act, has yet to be prosecuted in Scotland, so I recognise entirely why Claire Baker is seeking to strengthen what are seen to be deficiencies in the current law. I understand the frustration that the 2007 act appears to set the bar for prosecution relatively high, particularly when it comes to attributing a breach to individuals within the senior management of larger companies or organisations.

However, as the Justice Committee heard during the limited evidence that we took on the bill, there are serious questions about its legislative competence. The Presiding Officer has made clear his position in terms of the reserved nature of health and safety legislation and the law relating to corporations. Whatever our respective positions on where those powers should lie—I note the comments by John Finnie, Claire Baker and others about how we might test that at stage 2—I cannot see how the issue can be wished away in order to allow the bill to pass to stage 2.

There is certainly a strong case for reviewing the 2007 act, as the Law Society has suggested. Indeed, at the start of a new parliamentary session, before Government bills begin appearing, there could be an ideal opportunity for a successor Justice Committee to undertake such post-legislative scrutiny. If it were to do so, I am sure that the consultative and other work that Claire Baker has carried out would be invaluable in informing those deliberations and identifying potential ways forward. I also hope that the Scottish Law Commission, which is carrying out work on the law on homicide, might usefully look at that area in particular.

At this point, however, much as the Scottish Government has concluded, I am not persuaded of the case for passing the bill to stage 2, particularly given the workload pressures that are already on the Justice Committee in dealing with the legislation that is before it.

Nevertheless, like Karen Gillon before her, Claire Baker deserves huge credit for ensuring that a light continues to be shone on culpable homicide. That makes it more likely that the concerns that she quite rightly raises on behalf of the families who have been affected, and the wider public, will ultimately be addressed.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23917, in the name of Claire Baker, on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I ask those who ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am very proud to be introducing this debate on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill today. Families across Scotland who have suffered the death of a love...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Adam Tomkins to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee for up to five minutes, please. 15:23
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
The Justice Committee is awash with legislation. Today, we have published our stage 1 report on the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill. Next week, w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin by saying that the Scottish Government has a great deal of sympathy with families who have lost a relative while attending their workplace. We apprec...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. The Scottish Conservatives will vote against the principles of the Culpable Homicide (Scotland)...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I begin by paying tribute to Claire Baker. Introducing a member’s bill takes tenacity and hard work and she has displayed both. The bill recognises that too...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I congratulate Claire Baker and her team on getting the bill this far. I am a signatory to the bill and the Scottish Green Party will support it at decision ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
In customary fashion, I thank Claire Baker for introducing the bill. As I said in relation to the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 15:47
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Culpable homicide legislation needs to be updated, and the bill has been introduced with the intention of doing that. Much of the case law and, indeed, the l...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives’ approach to the bill has been outlined by my colleague Liam Kerr. I need not repeat what he has said, but perhaps one or two comm...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Hazards, along with trade unions and campaign lawyer Patrick McGuire from Thompsons Solicitors Scotland, has always said that families who are affec...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Claire Baker for the work that she has put into a member’s bill that deals with an important issue and means so much to families who are aff...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, pay tribute to Claire Baker for the immense work that she has put into researching, consulting on and drafting this member’s bill, and I thank the Ju...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Humza Yousaf, who has up to four minutes. 16:03
Humza Yousaf SNP
I welcome today’s debate. I am disappointed by some of the characterisations in the debate, particularly from Labour members, and the suggestion that those w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse my interrupting, cabinet secretary, but you are difficult to hear. Can you speak closer to your microphone?
Humza Yousaf SNP
It has been suggested that those who, for good reasons, oppose the bill somehow do not understand the struggles of, or sympathise with the feelings of, the f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Humza Yousaf SNP
—after being found guilty at trial over a number of health and safety at work failures. In January 2017, Donald Craig, the manager of an access plant hire fi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Claire Baker to wind up the debate. I can give you up to five minutes, Ms Baker. 16:10
Claire Baker Lab
I thank members for their contributions to the debate. I recognise that the process of scrutinising the bill has been curtailed, and I appreciate the conside...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Ms Baker. That concludes the debate on the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.