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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 19 January 2021

19 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I thank the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s clerks, and I thank the witnesses—in particular, the children and young people who gave us very full evidence during our consideration. I also pay tribute to two old colleagues of mine: Juliet Harris, who is the director of Together, the Scottish Alliance for Children’s Rights; and Bruce Adamson, who is the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland. They are long-standing friends who have fought tooth and nail to get us to this point, so it is to their credit that we are here.

I also want to do something uncharacteristic, which is to congratulate the Government heartily on an excellent piece of proposed legislation. It has surpassed my expectations and those of many people in the sector, which is to the Government’s credit.

For me, today in many ways represents the penultimate step towards the realisation of a goal that I have been striving for all my adult life—as a youth worker, as an officer in a children’s charity and as chair of the Scottish Alliance for Children’s Rights. Indeed, more than seven years ago, I gave evidence to the Education and Culture Committee on behalf of the children’s voluntary sector. I was the opening witness in stage 1 consideration of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill in 2013, and I might well have been the first person to articulate the desire to incorporate the UNCRC into Scots law. I said:

“we want ... what you want, which is to create a Scotland that is the best place in the world to grow up in.”

By “you”, I meant the Government. I went on to say:

“For us, the most elegant roadmap to that, and the most elegant solution against the international standard, is to incorporate the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Scots law. Until we do something like that, or we build the provisions into the way in which we make policy, we will forever be behind those countries that have already incorporated the UNCRC”.—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 10 September 2013; c 2715.]

Today, we are a step closer to that end, and I am heartily proud of that.

In the bill, we are recasting how we organise the conduct of human affairs in this country in a way that will put children and their interests at the heart of everything that we do. I congratulate the Government on that. However, the bill will serve the children whom it is designed to serve only if it is a living, breathing document that we come back to, refer to and remind ourselves of time and again.

We would do well to remind ourselves that the UNCRC is only the foundation on which rights are built—as the international community has determined, it represents the de minimis position—and is part of a much wider ecosystem that is updated every year. Therefore, I heartily agree with the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s recommendation that courts and tribunals must pay heed to things such as optional protocols, general comments and concluding observations. So, too, must the Government in its application of the convention.

The cabinet secretary was kind enough to take my intervention about the age of criminal responsibility. I think that he rather suspected what was coming. In general comment 10 it is stated that the international belief of the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child is that no country can be observant of human rights if it has an age of criminal responsibility that is not higher than 14. Ours remains 12—in fact, we have not even achieved an age of criminal responsibility of 12, so I hope very much that we can improve on that.

The committee also believes that public authorities must, as they make policy, exhibit due regard for children’s rights, in addition to acting compatibly with the UNCRC. That means that public bodies and authorities must bake children’s rights into policy from inception, rather than just thinking about them in the latter stages and merely checking policy against a children’s rights impact assessment. Children’s rights should be at the heart and in the fabric of everything that we decide to do.

The bill will be as good only as the justice that is afforded to the children who seek it. At the moment, navigation of our justice system is, for the very young, an incredibly intimidating prospect. That is why the Equalities and Human Rights Committee has called on the Lord President, Lord Carloway, to look at reform of the criminal justice system to make courts child friendly or, at least, to make access to justice more child friendly. It has also asked the Government to consider the implications for legal aid, so that no child is prohibited from reaching out for justice on the ground of cost.

Improvement of the remedy does not stop at providing access to the courts; it involves hearing the views of children about what would make their journey better and what would right the wrong that they have experienced. Our hearing the voice of children should be at the heart of every remedy that we offer them.

On reporting, ministers must make the legislation a live document, so it is good that they have committed to coming back to Parliament to report on evidence of rights transgression in our communities and our public bodies. However, they should also say what action they intend to take on deficiencies that they identify.

Finally, it is important that ministers do not have an option in relation to child rights and wellbeing impact assessments: those should be done for every policy. It is easy to think that certain aspects of our legislation are not relevant to children, but children are stakeholders in our community. We are custodians of their future, so we should think about that for every piece of legislation that we deal with.

Finally finally, we have covered several times the issue of commencement, on which I intend to lodge an amendment at stage 2. A bill is only window dressing unless it becomes an act and is delivered on the ground. I am concerned that the Age of Criminal Responsibility (Scotland) Act 2019, which we passed two years ago, has still not commenced. Rights will be made real only once they are real on the ground. Therefore, I ask the cabinet secretary to meet me to consider my suggested amendment to commence the act six months after its receipt of royal assent.

This is a great day for Scotland. I will close with the words of Nelson Mandela, who said that

“there can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way in which it treats our children.”

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23883, in the name of John Swinney, on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorpor...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
At a time when our country is wrestling with the difficulties and challenges resulting from Covid—the disruption to our lives and the burden and sense of los...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on an excellent bill. Does he agree that in order to be world leaders in children’s rights, we need to have an age of cr...
John Swinney SNP
The issues in relation to the age of criminal responsibility have been well rehearsed in Parliament and will continue to be debated as a consequence of the p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Ruth Maguire to speak on behalf of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee. 16:02
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee in the debate. It has been 30 years since the UK ratified the UN Convention on t...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to open on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives in this important stage 1 debate. I extend my thanks to the committee clerks and all those who...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a privilege to speak in this stage 1 debate on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill and to open for...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
This is the first stage in a historic process for the Parliament and for Scotland’s young people. It is an important milestone in the wider efforts to codify...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I thank the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s clerks, and I thank the witnesses—in particular, the children and young people who gave us very full evid...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I was somewhat amused by your “Finally finally”, which a few members use. 16:40
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I will talk about the outreach that the committee did on the bill. It is important to stress how valuable and comprehensive it was, and to commend the childr...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
For the avoidance of doubt, I start by saying that Scottish Conservative members support the bill in principle. If we voice technical concerns, that is a rea...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Greene must close, so he cannot take an intervention.
Jamie Greene Con
Given the genuine cross-party ambition to improve outcomes for all young Scots, let the bill not become one of those bad laws. 16:52
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It gives me great pleasure to speak in today’s historic debate. We often use the word “historic” in this Parliament, but we rarely use it as appropriately as...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s support for the incorporation of UNCRC into Scots law, which is long overdue, and its work on the stage...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
The bill that we are debating is crucial to our nation’s future and I will be delighted to agree to its general principles at decision time—in fact, to quote...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, I am pleased to speak about children’s rights today. I hope that we are able to do the issue justic...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Mr Gray, you will need to put your card in for anything worth while to happen. After all this time—it is so easily done. 17:17
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am delighted to find myself closing the debate for the Labour Party, because incorporation of the UNCRC into Scots law is a policy that we have long suppor...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Does Iain Gray recognise that, at eight, the age of criminal responsibility in Scotland is lower than it is anywhere else in the British isles and in those h...
Iain Gray Lab
That is the case, and it makes it worse to know that we passed legislation to move on from that position but that that law has not been commenced. That is wh...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I am delighted to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives and I place on record my thanks to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee for i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the Deputy First Minister, John Swinney, to close the debate for the Scottish Government. 17:30
John Swinney SNP
I draw the debate to a close with a word of thanks to members of the Scottish Parliament across the political spectrum for their contributions to the debate ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I have not been following the bill closely, but an answer that I got today to a parliamentary question said that the Government did not know how many childre...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Findlay clearly has not been following the debate. We did a data collection exercise with local government last summer, which identified 70,000 young peop...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I simply put that detail on the record to make it clear that what Mr Cole-Hamilton put on the record earlier is not a clear, accurate and comprehensive disti...