Hansard

I am conscious of the time, so I will aim most of my remarks at addressing the issues that Liam Kerr raised. I appreciate his acknowledgement of the engagement that I have had with Opposition members, and I know that Police Scotland also spoke to them when they required additional briefing.

I am certain that Liam Kerr acknowledges that the Scottish Government understands that, in some cases, covert sources must break the law, whether that is the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 or other legislation, to safeguard themselves and ensure that their position and important operations—which might involve drugs, human trafficking or child sexual exploitation—are not compromised. I hope that it is understood that the Scottish Government comprehends entirely that CHIS must break the law in some cases.

I will respond to Liam Kerr’s remarks. He asks the Scottish Government and the Parliament to agree to a bill that sanctions covert sources breaking the law without any prior independent judicial oversight, which reputable and respected human rights organisations have raised huge human rights concerns about. The bill does not make it clear that conduct such as murder, torture or sexual violence is not permitted, and Liam Kerr asks us to agree to that because it might be the easier of the two options that we have. It might be the easier option, but it is not the morally correct or most principled route for us to take.

Liam Kerr talked about a hard cliff edge. I recognise that there is a remote possibility of it, but an immediate hard cliff edge is unlikely. Given all the operational challenges that he mentioned, the Court of Appeal is unlikely to make a determination that creates such operational difficulties for law enforcement agencies and the security services. However, I accept his point that that could happen. In the unlikely scenario of it happening, the Parliament might have to reconvene to approve emergency legislation. If we introduced such legislation, it would be a sticking plaster and a stopgap to preserve police operations, but—I hope that this addresses some of Neil Findlay’s points—I give the absolute assurance that any Scottish emergency legislation would guarantee prior judicial oversight.

I also guarantee—I can make this guarantee only on behalf of the SNP Government—that if, after digesting the Court of Appeal judgment, we determined that a bill was required, the SNP Government, if re-elected, would introduce such a bill, to be discussed with Opposition colleagues. We would do that with full parliamentary scrutiny. I know that Neil Findlay is standing down, but we would speak to other Opposition members about the approach that such a bill should take in relation to a public interest test or any other red lines or important principles that they thought should be included.

The bill’s third reading will take place in the House of Lords on 21 January. The UK Government has confirmed that it will table amendments removing the bill’s provisions relating to RIPSA and the amendments to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000—RIPA—for devolved purposes. We await the Court of Appeal judgment to discover the extent of its impact—if there is any—on law enforcement operations in Scotland, and I will then carefully consider what further action is required.