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Committee

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee 17 December 2020

17 Dec 2020 · S5 · Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Item of business
Scottish General Election (Coronavirus) Bill: Stage 2
Section 4 sets out the requirements for the report that the Scottish ministers are obliged to publish after the new deadline for postal vote applications. The report is intended to outline the numbers of voters in Scotland who have registered for a postal vote or who have an application for a postal vote pending. The report will be made at a time when registration officers will be extremely busy processing the expected increase in postal vote applications. Although it is vital that we have data on progress with postal voting levels, we need to ensure that collating data for the report under section 4 does not distract registration officers from that processing task. The Government amendments in the group seek to achieve that by responding to concerns raised by registration officers. Amendment 1 changes the reference to 7 April in section 4(1) to reflect that the figures used in the preparation of the report will be the most current information available, but not necessarily the exact figures as at that date. The purpose of the report is to indicate the number of voters who are likely to be registered for postal votes at the election. Amendment 2 makes some changes to the information that is required to be set out in the report, to ensure that the picture is as clear as possible. Requiring that the report state the total number of voters registered to vote at the election provides context to the other figures. That detail, alongside the number of postal votes granted, allows for the calculation of the percentage of postal votes already granted and the maximum number that could be granted. Some pending applications will be duplicates or will be rejected for other reasons. Amendment 3 is a minor change to reflect the fact that the report will be based on the information that is available at 7 April—preparation of the report cannot begin until after that date. Turning to the other amendments in this group, I note that Mr Sarwar and Mr Findlay also seek to amend the report that is outlined in section 4. Although I sympathise with their intentions, I am afraid that I cannot support amendments 19 and 20. The principle behind amendment 19 is laudable, but the idea requires further refinement. It is not clear from the amendment whether the intention is for the report to contain detail on the additional resources provided by the Scottish Government, and it is rather confusing to be focused on resources that are provided specifically as at 7 April 2021, rather than more generally. However, I recognise the merit of having clear information on resourcing, and in the spirit of co-operation and consensus that Mr Sarwar has emphasised, I ask him not to move amendment 19 on the understanding that I will prepare or work with him on a similar amendment for stage 3. Mr Findlay’s amendment 20 is more problematic. Electoral professionals advise that the number of people “entitled” to vote at the election would be extremely difficult to determine accurately. My amendment 2 responds to that, by referring to “registered” persons instead. Although the Government would compile the report, gathering the data would have to be undertaken by EROs. For example, they would have to investigate instances of people who have not yet been registered to vote. I am sure that members will agree that placing additional demands on EROs’ time would not be a welcome move for the May 2021 election. They must be allowed to focus on registering voters, especially given the expected increase in postal vote applications. I understand Mr Findlay’s intent, but we have already collaborated with stakeholders to carefully craft amendment 2, which will give us valuable illustrative data on voter numbers without causing unnecessary additional work. That will include sufficient data to allow the calculation of numbers of registered voters who have not applied for a postal vote. Conversely, amendment 20 would require EROs to down tools at a time when they should be allowed to get on with the task of registration. I hope that colleagues will support amendments 1, 2 and 3. I ask Mr Sarwar not to move amendment 19, and to work with me on a suitable stage 3 alternative. I ask Mr Findlay not to move amendment 20. I urge members not to support either of those amendments if they are moved. I move amendment 1.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Bill Kidd) SNP
I welcome members to the 25th meeting of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee in 2020. Our first item is stage 2 proceedings on the Sc...
The Convener SNP
We come to the first group, on the deadline for application for postal votes. Amendment 18, in the name of Anas Sarwar, is the only amendment in the group.
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Good morning, convener, and good morning to the committee. Thank you for your time this morning. At the outset, I emphasise what I said in the stage 1 deba...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Anas Sarwar is raising issues on which many of us have expressed concern. However, it would be more consistent with the evidence that we took at stage 1 for ...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I have a similar concern. We are told that we are looking at a take-up of under 40 per cent and that we are preparing for take-up of 50 per cent. My concern ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have real concerns about that. I recognise some of the points that have been made, and I appreciate, to some extent, where Anas Sarwar is coming from. The ...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
I understand why we have a deadline for postal vote applications. It is not just about checking that the postal vote application is correct but ensuring that...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
Thank you, convener. I agree with Patrick Harvie on this. Two issues are being conflated, and section 3 should remain, for the reasons that we heard in evide...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The conservative nature of what is being said—that we simply cannot organise this, it is all so difficult and we do not have the resources—is depressing. A c...
The Convener SNP
Jamie Halcro Johnston can come in quickly—I was prompted by hearing Neil Findlay say that people were being conservative at the moment.
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
I am not sure whether we can intervene at this stage. I am sure that the member will recognise that there will be potential bumps along the road, whatever re...
The Convener SNP
Would the minister like to respond?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
Yes. There is a lot to respond to. What we have heard is an illustration of why amendment 18 is useful in so far as it provokes discussion. As you might ima...
The Convener SNP
I call Anas Sarwar to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 18.
Anas Sarwar Lab
I will pick up on a few points. I think that Neil Findlay is right that it seems as if we have a “can’t do” attitude to some of that, rather than a “can do” ...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2, 3, 19 and 20.
Graeme Dey SNP
Section 4 sets out the requirements for the report that the Scottish ministers are obliged to publish after the new deadline for postal vote applications. Th...
Anas Sarwar Lab
I am happy to work with the minister on his suggested reworking of amendment 19 for stage 3. I think—and hope—that we both want the same outcome from the ame...
Neil Findlay Lab
Amendment 20 would require ministers to report on the number of electors who have not applied for a postal vote by 7 April 2021, which is a month before the ...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am pleased that the Government seems willing to work with Anas Sarwar on a replacement for his amendment 19. When I read the amendment, its intention seeme...
The Convener SNP
I ask the minister to wind up.
Graeme Dey SNP
First, I thank Anas Sarwar for his constructive approach on amendment 19. The point has been made that the number of electors—the people who are registered...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 20 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Against Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Gree...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 20 disagreed to. Amendment 3 moved—Graeme Dey—and agreed to. Section 4, as amend...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 21, on the return of postal vote to be free of charge, is in a group on its own.
Anas Sarwar Lab
Amendment 21 is simple. It connects to what I said at the outset of our discussion this morning. The bill cannot simply be about raising awareness of the abi...
Patrick Harvie Green
I feel a little bit the same about this amendment as I felt about Anas Sarwar’s amendment 19, in that it raises important issues and is addressing something ...
Neil Findlay Lab
This is a test of how serious we are about opening up voting to as many people as possible. Anas Sarwar eloquently explained all the steps that someone must ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
I recognise some of the points that Anas Sarwar made, but I am still slightly unconvinced. He highlighted quite a long list of barriers, but I am not sure ho...