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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 December 2020

09 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

That is because lateral flow tests cannot be administered without clinical supervision, which means that we would have to put such supervision into every single school in the country, as well as ensure that we had sufficient lateral flow devices.

We have allocated supplies to students to address directly the issues that arose from the spread of the virus, and we have put in place clinical supervision for use of the lateral flow devices. That is the fundamental difference. That has been done in 19 institutions in the country. I note, for Mr Greene’s benefit, that we have 2,500 schools in the country, so putting such provision in place in schools would be a substantially different proposition.

I turn to exams. Ross Greer made the point that exams are potentially being replaced by de facto exams—prelims. I completely debunk that point of view; that is not what is in the guidance that has been set out. I do not believe that it is necessary for young people to sit a mid-term exam to replace the end-of-year exam. That is not what the change is about. It is about holistic assessment and relying on the judgment of teachers to enable—as Elaine Smith correctly highlighted—the taking into account of the personal experiences of individual young people and their access to education.

Alison Harris raised a concern about the mental health of young people in our schools. I am concerned about that, too, but I do not believe that the solution is to put young people, with all the worries that they have just now, in the position of having to wait for an end-of-year exam when we can instead support them to develop their learning during the year to ensure that they have command of the curriculum and can be entitled to awards.

If Alison Harris thinks that young people’s mental health would, in the current circumstances, be better served by having them wait for one afternoon in May as the opportunity for them to be supported, I disagree with that view. The Parliament is entitled to hear honest disagreement between its members; members are hearing such disagreement with that suggestion now from the education secretary.

I come to the question of the timing of exam decisions. There has been some criticism of the timing of my decision yesterday. However, I point out that various members—on the Conservative side of the chamber, in particular—have argued vociferously that I should not take any premature decisions—[Interruption.] I appreciate that that does not apply to members on all sides of the chamber; nevertheless, members have argued against my taking premature decisions.

We now find ourselves in a situation in which, when I take a decision, it is judged to be a delayed decision by the self-same members who previously argued that to make such a decision would be premature. That stinks of total and utter rank hypocrisy, of which we have heard a lot this afternoon. [Interruption.]

My final point relates to the practical contents of the motion. There are two provisions in particular that I entirely support. One is expansion of the number of teachers—which we have done. The other is expansion of provision of free school meals, which we have done and continue to do. We did not need to be shamed into action by successful footballers, because we had already decided to enable that provision.

The Parliament must consider how all the measures in the motion would be implemented in practice. It must be careful about the motions that it passes, because it must be able to put in place the financial and operational support to ensure that the measures can be delivered.

16:24  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23629, in the name of Jamie Greene, on responding to parliamentary will and calls for clarity in educatio...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Debate time is short today, but there are several important points that I want to raise with members. I thank members from all the political parties who hav...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Yesterday, I outlined to the Parliament that plans for the 2021 exams have been updated in the light of the continuing disruption to young people’s education...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Can the cabinet secretary outline where the exceptional, one-off payment will be sourced from? Is it coming from SQA fees or from general taxation?
John Swinney SNP
It will come out of public expenditure because all these activities are paid for through public expenditure. However, we will not be paying SQA marker fees i...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will Mr Swinney give way?
John Swinney SNP
Mr Mundell will forgive me—I have to draw my remarks to a close. Decisions about school staffing rest with local authorities, and I continue to discuss thei...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I rise to support the motion and to move the amendment in my name. I start by paying tribute to all school staff for their efforts in keeping our schools goi...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank Jamie Greene for ensuring that we have time to debate the broad range of serious and interrelated issues that our schools face this term. As Mr Green...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I want to start by acknowledging and thanking pupils, parents and carers, teachers and all school staff for their hard work, especially during the pandemic. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. I encourage members to stick to their four minutes in order that everyone can be heard. 15:47
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I declare my membership of the General Teaching Council for Scotland. I start by thanking our teachers and everyone who works in our schools for supporting ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to the fact that I have a daughter who is head of department in a secondary school and my youngest has just started secondary schoo...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
We will reflect that wisdom and knowledge changed on a daily and sometimes hourly basis in 2020 as the Covid crisis progressed. Some things—some wisdom and k...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
No one is under any illusion that running an education system in the middle of a global pandemic is easy. All across Europe, Governments have been forced to ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
The Conservative motion that we are debating has many asks, and it appears to be a composite of many issues, some of which, as has been said, have been super...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The last speaker in the open debate is George Adam. 16:09
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I do not doubt the commitment to education in Scotland of any of my colleagues in the Parliament. I do not doubt that they want the best for our young people...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
In his remarks, George Adam asked us to take a deep breath. I would ask SNP members to consider that it is they who need to take a deep breath. There is noth...
John Swinney SNP
Let me address some of the points that have been raised by members. First, Ross Greer and Beatrice Wishart both mentioned the position of vulnerable teacher...
Jamie Greene Con
I have a simple question. If we can offer lateral flow tests to students to get them home for Christmas, why cannot we do the same for teachers?
John Swinney SNP
That is because lateral flow tests cannot be administered without clinical supervision, which means that we would have to put such supervision into every sin...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I start on a note of consensus after that grumpy, angry and dismissive speech, which has become John Swinney’s trademark when it comes to education—Interrupt...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Could we stop for a moment, please? Sit down, please, Mr Mundell. I have spent the last 10 minutes listening to shouting from one side of the chamber, and I...
Oliver Mundell Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Covid has revealed where education truly sits in the Government’s priority list, and it is not at the top. It is hard for the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That concludes the debate on responding to parliamentary will and to calls for clarity in education. It is time to move on to the next item of business. I w...