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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 December 2020

03 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

We face a number of challenges around heat. They include the need to decarbonise heat and the fuel poverty that many of our constituents face. Heat networks, and in particular district heating systems, definitely have a big part to play in tackling those challenges. I say in passing that I hope that we continue working on hydrogen as an option, using the existing gas pipework if possible. I find it tremendously exciting to hear about the H100 pilot project in Fife, although I accept that a lot of the technology on hydrogen is still at a relatively early stage of development.

I have been a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee and its predecessors on and off since 2011. I was hugely impressed when, some time ago, we visited the University of St Andrews district heating system, which has its heat production facility at Guardbridge, some 4.6 miles away from most of the university buildings. The network is about 10.6km in length. Frankly, I had not realised that hot water could be transferred so far with such little loss in temperature. I suspect that I am not unusual in not fully understanding the systems.

The committee found a bit of a disconnect between the undoubted public support for climate change reduction measures and the lack of awareness of the role of heat. When district heating is mentioned, some of us perhaps think of the sort of hugely inefficient Soviet-era system that Andy Wightman referred to, leaking steam and heat all over the place, with little or no control for the individual household. However, a modern district heating system is completely different.

In its response to paragraph 143 of the committee’s report, the Government refers to a report entitled “Public awareness of and attitudes to low-carbon heating technologies: an evidence review”, the findings of which include the fact that the two main factors that put people off low-carbon heating systems are the expected cost and uncertainty about performance. I guess that that will gradually be overcome as such systems become more common and more people have them or know other people who have them and are benefiting from them.

In my constituency, the Commonwealth games village was an extremely desirable housing development, with a mix of owner-occupied and social rented housing. Of course, it was built to a higher than normal specification and was subsidised, so it was very attractive to prospective residents. I suspect that most of them moved in despite the district heating system rather than because of it. We had various complaints early on, especially about the charging system. At least to start with, the heating charges were set to match traditional heating costs, because the operators did not know what the actual costs, such as the cost of long-term maintenance, would be. I do not think that we have had any complaints about the system recently.

The hope is that heat networks can be one way of reducing fuel costs and therefore fuel poverty, so I welcome the Government’s response to paragraphs 131 and 132 of the committee’s report, which recommended that that aim be made more explicit in the bill.

A related issue is how we will deal with the existing heat networks when the new licensing system comes into play. The committee raised that topic in paragraph 86, and I welcome the Government’s response, which talks about possible exemptions, which could be time limited, the exclusion or modification of licence conditions, and the adaptation of fees.

Andy Wightman was particularly concerned that local authorities and communities should be as involved as possible with district heating. I have a lot of sympathy with that point of view, so I welcome the Government’s commitment to lodge an amendment at stage 2 to enable responsibility for the award of heat network consents to be transferred to local authorities if they wish that to happen.

There is a lot more that could be said—for example, about an obligation to connect and other issues—but I will leave it at that. Like the rest of the committee, I am very happy to support the general principles of the bill.

16:41  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23564, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on stage 1 of the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. 15:55
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the bill and that we have reached this point in the process. I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that Ofgem would be the appropriate body?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
We are very supportive of Ofgem providing the role. Obviously, it is not within our gift to appoint a body that is constituted under a UK statute. We are see...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Heat networks are hardly a new idea. The first modern district heating system was pioneered in a town in the state of New York in 1877. Birdsill Holly, a fri...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
It is welcome to finally be here deliberating legislation to advance heat networks in Scotland, although I feel that it has been a long time coming; so long,...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Burnett Con
If I can have the time back, certainly.
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
The member rightly identifies that we need an accurate understanding of what the heat load and the demand load would be, building by building. Does he apprec...
Alexander Burnett Con
I welcome that reply. I also note for the record that I welcome the minister’s offer in previous conversations to be as constructive as possible on the bill....
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Paul Wheelhouse for introducing the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the bill as an opportunity to address concerns around the sector and as ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens. You have up to five minutes, Mr Wightman. 16:28
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Scottish Greens welcome the bill. I thank the committee’s clerks and all those who gave evidence. As the convener did in his opening remarks, I thank the min...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer might grant Andy Wightman a closing remark, so that he can explain why he was on special manoeuvres, skiing in Siber...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate. 16:37
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We face a number of challenges around heat. They include the need to decarbonise heat and the fuel poverty that many of our constituents face. Heat networks,...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests. It is interesting to take part in the debate as somebody who has not been involved in the committe...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way; I will not take much of his time. I very much agree with him about the need for pace. I do not disagree with that...
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the minister for that, and I agree. Whoever is slowing it down and wherever the slowness is, I will criticise those people, because it is a great sch...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As ever, I begin by welcoming the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. Scotland and, by extension, this Scottish Government have a proud reco...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a little time in hand, so I am giving quizzical looks if members go over their four minutes. I am not upset. 16:51
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer. I speak on behalf of all members when I say that we do not like upsetting you at all. Members: Hear, hear.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I echo Edward Mountain’s comment. As a non-committee member, one can feel a little like an interloper, especially on a subject such as this. I would say, how...
Andy Wightman Green
I am very glad that Daniel Johnson mentioned that. Does he agree that what we are seeing in countries such as Denmark is an example of municipal enterprise, ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
By the means of our collective endeavour, we achieve more than we do alone. I do not care much if we want to call that municipal socialism or co-operative en...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I think that Daniel Johnson has just condemned Gordon Lindhurst to banishment by describing him as a municipal socialist—but there we go. I welcome the chan...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is perhaps fitting that we are having this debate while many parts of Scotland are seeing the first snow of winter. I was a member of the Economy, Energy...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Colin Beattie, to be followed by Bob Doris. Interruption. I think that you are on mute, Mr Beattie. While we are waiting for things to be sorted at th...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
It is just as well that I was paying attention, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to speak in the debate and to highlight the very real opportunities to boost...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
Tackling our need to decarbonise heating systems must be a major priority for us all. To date, we have been fairly successful in decarbonising our electricit...