Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,445
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,445 contributions in session S6, 13 May 2026 – 12 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 26 November 2020

26 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Doris, Bob SNP Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn Watch on SPTV

I was sympathetic to the bill, but I waited for the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee’s stage 1 report, which is finely balanced. Initially, it appeared to be a very straightforward bill, but as I took the time to read the briefings, it became clear to me that the position has become more complex and uncertain as the issues have been explored. I suspect that significant amendments will be needed at stage 2, should the bill progress at decision time.

I want to make a few observations. On the debate as to whether there is a need for the bill in the first place, I was struck by the anonymised survey of tenants of tied pubs that the Scottish Parliament information centre arranged. It found that

“The majority of ... respondents felt that the Bill would improve the relationship between pub-owning businesses and tenants.”

I can understand that; given the contractual relationship between tenants and pub-owning businesses, tenants are most likely to give a clear and frank response when the response is anonymous. Therefore, I place significance on those findings.

It was also interesting to see the significant variance in estimations of the income of tied pubs. Based on a telephone survey from 2014, the Campaign for Real Ale estimated that it could be as low as £10,000. I think that that figure is staggeringly low. In 2019, the British Beer and Pub Association estimated that the average income of tied tenants was about £38,000.

Hawthorn Leisure helpfully informed the committee that it aims for minimum earnings of £25,000 for tenants. It might be one of the better pub-owning businesses—I have no idea, and cannot comment on the others, either—but I note that 10 of its tenants contacted the committee to indicate that they oppose the bill. That might suggest that the views of tenants on the need for the bill will depend on how well they feel they are treated by the pub-owning business. Surely a reason for having a statutory Scottish pub code, along with arbitration and enforcement, is to ensure protection and good practice right across the tied pub sector.

I was also interested to examine the debate on whether the bill should include a provision for tenants to have a market-rent-only option. I understand the nervousness of pub-owning businesses about that. If we remove the ties, offer tenants maximum flexibility and give them a greater chance to grow their business, strike better deals and improve their income, that might be at the expense of pub-owning businesses. Of course, pub-owning businesses will have issues with the proposal. However, the provision would provide a significant incentive for the pub-owning businesses to demonstrate to existing tenants the benefits of the tie. Therefore, even if very few tenants opted to consider a market-rent-only option, if that is progressed in the bill, it might still drive positive change.

Pub-owning businesses are also concerned about the idea of allowing tenants to source guest beers directly. SPICe indicated that if that beer was a “standard lager”, as it was termed in the briefing—I suppose that that means a house lager—it would constitute about 38 per cent of all beer sales in the pub. Being able to undercut lager that is supplied by the pub-owning business would, of course, boost income for the tenant and impact on the pub owner.

At the end of the day, I suppose that what the bill seeks to do is the right thing to do, so I support its general principles. I want to ensure that tenants have adequate rights, protections and—which is to be hoped for and is important—boosted incomes. Of course, we must ensure that the balance is right, and that if we extend protection to tied pubs, it does not stifle the advent of new entrants into the sector or the expansion of smaller businesses.

The levies and fees must be appropriate, and if the extensions of market-rent-only rights and guest-beer flexibilities are taken forward, that must be done in such a way that pub-owning businesses are partners in the process and it benefits the entire sector.

I absolutely support the general principles of the bill, but I suspect that there will be lots of work to do at stage 2.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23343, in the name of Neil Bibby, on the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish to speak in...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. It is a critical time for pubs and all those whose livelihoods depend on the licensed tra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Gordon Lindhurst to speak as convener on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. 17:16
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, “This work is dedicated to the abomination of all that restricts travel.” That sounds almost contemporary, but so reads the dedication t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is breaking news to me, but I believe you. 17:23
The Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I begin, sadly, not with the literary flair of the committee convener, but by thanking Neil Bibby for introducing the bill and encouraging and fostering disc...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I accept that the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill has been introduced with good intentions, although the manner in which the member has sought to progress the bill...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Neil Bibby, his team and the non-Government bills unit for the huge amount of work that they have done to get us to the stage 1 debate. I also thank ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, commend Neil Bibby for introducing the bill, which the Scottish Greens believe provides for a proportionate and fair intervention in the relationship...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I cannot let this go without comment. I commend Maurice Golden for his contribution. He attempted to demolish the bill before indicating that he will endorse...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We move to the open debate. 17:49
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to take part in the debate on Neil Bibby’s Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill. I congratulate Mr Bibby and his team, and I thank ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Neil Bibby on bringing forward a very well-thought-through bill. I know, obviously, that it takes a great deal of effort to get a bill to this...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I was not aware that Mr Johnson spoke about me in private, but I hope that my approach to the bill encourages him to approach such matters with a more open m...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will bear that in mind. The minister might want to ask some of his colleagues about the things that I say in private about him. In all seriousness, I thin...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The issue first came to my attention when I was in the UK Parliament in England. I must say that I was impressed by the work of the Lib Dem MP Greg Mulhollan...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I express my empathy for the bill’s principles. My grandfather will be spinning in his grave at a high rate of knots because he was a member of the Independe...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
We are having this debate against a backdrop of the most severe crisis ever to have faced our hospitality sector. Pubs are on their knees. In many parts of t...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I am not a member of the committee, but I take issue with the comments of Neil Bibby that Graham Simpson has just referred to. My Glasgow Kelvin constituenc...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I was sympathetic to the bill, but I waited for the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee’s stage 1 report, which is finely balanced. Initially, it appeare...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to closing speeches. 18:18
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
There has been a lot of huffing and puffing in the debate. Some people have been sitting on the fence so long that they are likely to have splinters in sensi...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The debate on the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill has been lively—and not just here in the chamber, because it has generated a lot of strong views across the pub s...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will Dean Lockhart acknowledge that landlords providing financial comfort to tenants through the crisis is not the exclusive preserve of this sector, that it...
Dean Lockhart Con
That is a fair point. However, if there is any risk that there would be a decline in landlords investing in pubs in Scotland in the future, that financial su...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I will respond to as much of the debate as I have time to. However, I start with an apology to Daniel Johnson. I am incredibly sorry that I have not conforme...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Perhaps this is the beginning of it.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I thank the minister for giving way. I confirm that my opinion of him is quite transformed; unfortunately, my poor sense of humour is not.
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Clearly, neither is mine—I was only joking, Mr Johnson. Andy Wightman welcomed that I was not persuaded by the committee’s recommendations, which is—I suppo...