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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020

25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Legal Advice (Publication)
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

I think that Mr Cole-Hamilton knows the answer to that, but I presume that he raises it so that I can confirm it.

The ministerial code prevents me from disclosing whether I have taken the advice of the Lord Advocate and from disclosing the sources of any legal advice that I have taken. Mr Cole-Hamilton knows the obligations that I am under; they cannot be casually dismissed because, if I dismissed them, I am sure that members would complain that I had breached the ministerial code by which I am held to account.

Over the course of more than two hours, the Lord Advocate responded to questions from the committee and gave detailed descriptions of the Scottish Government’s decision making and legal position at each stage of the process. During the meeting, he committed to write to the committee on specific points and stands ready to provide further information as required. Since the last debate on the issue in Parliament, significant further detail has been provided to the committee through the Lord Advocate’s evidence, so the Government has endeavoured to respond constructively to the debate in Parliament that took place in early November. No final decision has been made by the Government in our further consideration of the issue. I confirm that the issue was discussed with the Cabinet yesterday. The First Minister recused herself from that part of the meeting, as is appropriate. Given the seriousness of the issue involved, before the Government and I come to a conclusion, I will consult the Cabinet again.

I am reflecting on the arguments that were put forward in the previous debate and I will consider any new arguments put forward today that will help to inform the decision-making process.

The Government has made available to the committee significant detail on our legal position through the evidence that has already been provided by the Lord Advocate. This is not a straightforward decision. There is no clear precedent for the Scottish Government to waive legal privilege in these circumstances and there is real potential for negative consequences from such a decision. It would potentially create a new precedent that would potentially undermine the Government’s ability to receive legal advice in all candour that would enable it to take decisions during litigation in the future. Taking the time necessary to consider the significant issues raised by the request for release of our legal advice, including the precedent involved, is therefore only right and proper. To do anything else would not respect Parliament in this or future sessions, nor would it respect the significant issues of sexual harassment that lie at the heart of the debate.

I move amendment S5M-23445.2, to leave out from “notes that the legal advice” to end and insert:

“acknowledges that this complex matter is being actively considered by Ministers; notes that the right of private access to legal advice is a fundamental right under Scots Law, and recognises that, since that vote of the Parliament, the Lord Advocate has shared extensive detail of the Scottish Government's legal position with the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints at its meeting on 17 November 2020, will be writing further to the Committee following that meeting, and stands ready to provide additional information as the Committee requires.”

16:51  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23445, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on legal advice. I encourage all members who wish to contribute to pr...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Three weeks ago, Parliament resolved that the Scottish Government should hand over to the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complai...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Earlier this month, when Parliament last debated this issue, I set out the reasons why Scottish ministers considered that the balance of public interest lay ...
Murdo Fraser Con
The Deputy First Minister is aware that the committee has been asking for sight of that legal advice, not in the past three weeks but for many months before ...
John Swinney SNP
I will make two points. The first is that, although the committee has been asking for the legal advice, the Government has been maintaining its position, whi...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
The Deputy First Minister’s recollection of the Lord Advocate’s evidence to our committee is correct. One of the things that the Lord Advocate would not disc...
John Swinney SNP
I think that Mr Cole-Hamilton knows the answer to that, but I presume that he raises it so that I can confirm it. The ministerial code prevents me from disc...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It is tempting to make the same speech that I made the last time we debated this issue, because in the past three weeks, absolutely nothing has changed—not o...
John Swinney SNP
Would Jackie Baillie care to share with Parliament any of the detail of the correspondence that I shared with the committee about the obligations that I am u...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I would be happy to share that. It is available on the website. However, I say to the cabinet secretary that he has had not just the time that the committee ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Here we go again. As members have already stated, the Parliament expressed its will in unequivocal terms and voted on 4 November. I want to reflect on the qu...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
We should not be having this debate. I say to Government members who will likely criticise the use of parliamentary time for a topic such as this in the midd...
The Presiding Officer NPA
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Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
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Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
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James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
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James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
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Murdo Fraser Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I am sure that you are aware that standing orders require members to address the terms of the topic of the debate. We...
The Presiding Officer NPA
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James Dornan SNP
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Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
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Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
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Jackie Baillie Lab
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John Swinney SNP
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John Swinney SNP
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Jackie Baillie Lab
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John Swinney SNP
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Andy Wightman Green
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Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
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