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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020

25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Legal Advice (Publication)
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Three weeks ago, Parliament resolved that the Scottish Government should hand over to the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints all the legal advice that it received in relation to the judicial review taken against it by the former First Minister Alex Salmond. That was a clear majority vote of the Parliament, and it is deeply disappointing that, three weeks later, that advice has still not been forthcoming.

It is a matter of regret that we are again having to spend parliamentary time asking the Scottish Government to meet its obligations to the Parliament and to the committee. The Government’s failure to comply with the will of Parliament is deeply disrespectful to the institution and it flies in the face of numerous demands that Scottish National Party ministers have made in the past that the will of Parliament be respected.

The background to the situation is the on-going inquiry into the Government’s handling of harassment complaints against the former First Minister Alex Salmond. We should never forget that at the heart of this matter are a number of women who made complaints in relation to the behaviour of the former First Minister, and who have never seen a resolution to those complaints. By continually refusing to co-operate with the committee and meet the committee’s reasonable requests for information, the Scottish Government can only be adding to the stress and discomfort that those individuals feel. They have a right to know what went wrong, as indeed does the committee, members of the Scottish Parliament and the broader public.

We are dealing with a situation where more than £500,000 of taxpayers’ money was paid out in legal costs to the former First Minister, and that sum takes no account of the in-house costs and external costs incurred by the Scottish Government itself. Remarkably, we still do not have a functioning complaints process at the heart of the Scottish Government that is compliant with the law, nearly two years on from the concession of the judicial review.

Last week the Lord Advocate, James Wolffe, appeared at the committee to answer questions in relation to the conduct of the judicial review. He was asked a series of questions by various members of the committee in relation to the Government’s legal position on the judicial review and the legal advice that it took. He refused to answer those questions, not once, not twice, but on 27 separate occasions, in each case citing the law officer convention that ministers do not confirm the involvement or non-involvement of law officers in any particular matter. That is 27 separate occasions on which members of the committee from different political parties felt that there were relevant issues that needed to be explored, but the Lord Advocate refused to answer the questions.

That puts in context the line in the Government amendment that talks about the Lord Advocate’s co-operation with the committee—there are 27 ways in which to refute that statement. That is not transparent government and it is not the way to get to the bottom of what has gone wrong here.

What we do know is that when the judicial review case was conceded by the Scottish Government, the award of expenses paid to Mr Salmond, from taxpayers’ money, was at the highest level possible, which is payable only when, in the words of Lord Hodge, a defence has been conducted “incompetently or unreasonably”.

It is, in my view, therefore perfectly reasonable to ask the question: what went so badly wrong with the Scottish Government’s defence that it could be classified as either unreasonable or incompetent? However, we cannot get to the bottom of that key question until we see the legal advice.

Three weeks ago, Mr Swinney said that the Scottish Government would reflect on the vote in Parliament and consider what could be produced. Three weeks later, we are no further forward, and time is running out.

For months, the committee has been asking for this legal advice. The committee hopes to conclude taking oral evidence by Christmas, effectively giving us four weeks of parliamentary time from now. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to meet that deadline unless the legal advice is forthcoming. It is hard, therefore, to avoid the conclusion that the Government is cynically running down the clock on the inquiry, hoping that time will overtake us and we will not be able to do the job that Parliament expects us to do.

We should remember that this committee was established back in February 2019. The Government has had ample time to deal with the provision of evidence and should not be scurrying around at the last minute trying to make excuses about why vital documentation should not now be made available. Further, it is not just the Opposition parties saying that. Three weeks ago, the Scottish National Party MSP Alex Neil said this:

“The Government is going to have to release this legal advice. In my view the founding principles of the Parliament are openness, transparency and accountability. In this instance, the logic of that is this legal advice has to be given to the committee.”

He is right. Writing yesterday, in The Press and Journal and The Courier newspapers, the former special adviser to the Scottish Government Campbell Gunn said that he could not see the logic in the Scottish Government’s position. He said this:

“If, as they say, they have nothing to hide, then surely they shouldn’t hide things ... Do ministers, advisers and senior civil servants have any conception of how their current position looks from the outside?”

If even people in the SNP are saying that, the Government really needs to start listening. There have been numerous occasions in the past when the SNP and ministers have demanded that the will of this Parliament be respected. For example, on 31 March 2017, the First Minister said this:

“In my view, the will of the Scottish Parliament must be respected. It is a question not of if it is respected, but how”.

That is the situation that we are in today. It is time for Scottish ministers to respect the will of Parliament, stop delaying, stop the obfuscation and provide the legal advice without further delay.

Time is running out on the committee inquiry. If the Government wants to have any shred of credibility left when it comes to openness and respecting the will of Parliament, it must produce the legal advice. That is what my motion says, and I have pleasure in moving it today.

I move,

That the Parliament recalls the vote on motion S5M-23218 on 4 November 2020, in which it called on the Scottish Government to publish the legal advice it received regarding the judicial review into the handling of harassment complaints against the former First Minister, Alex Salmond; notes that the legal advice sought has not yet been published, despite the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints requesting this by 13 November 2020, and calls on the Scottish Government to respect the will of the Parliament by providing the legal advice without any further delay.

16:42  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23445, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on legal advice. I encourage all members who wish to contribute to pr...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Three weeks ago, Parliament resolved that the Scottish Government should hand over to the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complai...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Earlier this month, when Parliament last debated this issue, I set out the reasons why Scottish ministers considered that the balance of public interest lay ...
Murdo Fraser Con
The Deputy First Minister is aware that the committee has been asking for sight of that legal advice, not in the past three weeks but for many months before ...
John Swinney SNP
I will make two points. The first is that, although the committee has been asking for the legal advice, the Government has been maintaining its position, whi...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
The Deputy First Minister’s recollection of the Lord Advocate’s evidence to our committee is correct. One of the things that the Lord Advocate would not disc...
John Swinney SNP
I think that Mr Cole-Hamilton knows the answer to that, but I presume that he raises it so that I can confirm it. The ministerial code prevents me from disc...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It is tempting to make the same speech that I made the last time we debated this issue, because in the past three weeks, absolutely nothing has changed—not o...
John Swinney SNP
Would Jackie Baillie care to share with Parliament any of the detail of the correspondence that I shared with the committee about the obligations that I am u...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I would be happy to share that. It is available on the website. However, I say to the cabinet secretary that he has had not just the time that the committee ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Here we go again. As members have already stated, the Parliament expressed its will in unequivocal terms and voted on 4 November. I want to reflect on the qu...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
We should not be having this debate. I say to Government members who will likely criticise the use of parliamentary time for a topic such as this in the midd...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I am conscious that this is a debate, so I have given as much time as possible for interventions. However, we are pushed for time, so members have only four ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Three weeks have elapsed since the Scottish Parliament agreed to a motion calling on the Scottish Government to publish all the legal advice that it received...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I start by agreeing with Murdo Fraser when he sympathised with the complainers, which was entirely proper. Let us look at precedents in relation to the disc...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Here we go again. For the second time in three weeks, we are having a debate that concentrates on the release of legal advice pertaining to the judicial revi...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
Yesterday, we saw the Parliament at its finest, working across parties to pass an important piece of legislation for people across the whole of Scotland. It ...
Murdo Fraser Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I am sure that you are aware that standing orders require members to address the terms of the topic of the debate. We...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I have been following the member’s contribution with close interest, Mr Fraser. He has been making a point. However, he has now made his point with his compa...
James Dornan SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—although I have to say that pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories is very important to what the debate is all about. As my c...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
As members have said, here we are again. I had thought that the SNP would, after it lost the crucial vote in the chamber three weeks ago on a motion that had...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I begin by reiterating what I said in the debate on 4 November. I made three points then on the issue of legal advice, and I wish to repeat them. First, as ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Now we know. We know from today’s speeches, from the briefings to the SNP group and from the reports to their meetings by John Swinney that the Scottish Gove...
John Swinney SNP
I will reflect on a couple of the contributions, because they illustrate the arguments that I gave in my opening speech. Stewart Stevenson brought his deep ...
John Swinney SNP
I will develop the point and happily give way to Jackie Baillie. I made the point earlier that ministers today have a duty to ministers in the future, which...
Jackie Baillie Lab
The fundamental difference that John Swinney fails to mention is that we never faced, and lost, a vote in the Parliament and were never in a situation in whi...
John Swinney SNP
That is not the fundamental point; the fundamental point is the maintenance of legal professional privilege, which has existed in law for all time, and which...
Andy Wightman Green
Can we take it from the cabinet secretary’s observations that he has no intention of publishing any legal advice in relation to the judicial review?
John Swinney SNP
I am simply airing to the Parliament the issues with which I have to wrestle. I am the minister who will have to decide on the question, and I am simply airi...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a member of the Faculty of Advocates. I will begin on a bit of a tangent, and I hope th...