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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020

25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Policing (Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues) (Independent Review)
Baker, Claire Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon’s debate. Dame Elish Angiolini has produced a significant and wide-ranging report, which has many important recommendations on areas in which we need to see prompt action.

The Home Office commissioned Dame Elish Angiolini to produce a report into deaths in custody in the UK, which was published in October 2017. As the cabinet secretary knows, I have raised concerns and called for reform in that area, following my engagement with the family of Sheku Bayoh, who died in police custody in May 2015 after his arrest on the street in Kirkcaldy. Mr Bayoh’s family and friends have suffered, and it has been a long journey for them to the public inquiry, which needs to provide them with answers and make recommendations to prevent similar deaths in the future.

Following the 2017 report, I called for comparable work to be undertaken in Scotland. I welcome the broad manner in which the independent review into complaints handling, investigations and misconduct issues in relation to policing has been approached.

Labour’s amendment highlights the worrying evidence that is presented by the report of the racism, homophobia and misogyny that are experienced by police officers in the force. I have to say that I was disappointed by part of the response of the Scottish Police Federation. It is regrettable that the SPF gave the impression that it was downplaying the criticism by describing the police service that is portrayed in the report as one that it did not recognise, when it is clear that the report reflects the lived experience of police officers who have been affected by an unacceptable culture. I support the need for a fundamental review of equality matters, and I welcome the chief constable’s commitment to an independent review.

I welcome the recommendation that deaths in custody be treated with the same urgency as homicide investigations, and that the family of the deceased have access to free legal advice and representation from the earliest point and throughout any subsequent inquiry. I have seen how overwhelming it is to deal with the immediate investigation and then the police complaints system and to attempt to find answers, all while dealing with grief and the loss of a loved one. Access to free legal advice would go some way towards addressing the imbalance that is felt by a family that has experienced a death in custody, and providing support at a traumatic time.

It was 30 days before the police officers who attended the arrest of Sheku Bayoh gave evidence to the PIRC. On the day of Mr Bayoh’s death, officers all returned to the same station and spent eight hours together. I understand that police officers are entitled to the same protection as all citizens; however, the current legislation and regulations—and, in the Sheku Bayoh case, the guidance at the time—create an environment that makes it possible for information not to be shared at key moments in an investigation. That is not acceptable, and the recommendation that all police officers should be interviewed swiftly, and without contact with other officers, in death-in-custody cases is an obvious reform that needs to happen. The recommendation that early retirement would not exclude police officers from gross misconduct cases is important, as it would retain and strengthen accountability.

The recommendations regarding the PIRC identify some of the key issues that have risked undermining the PIRC’s reputation. There is a need to balance the number of former police officers in the PIRC with expertise from outside the force, and to increase transparency and accountability, as well as democratic oversight.

Although there will be those who defend the current system of police complaints and the role of the PIRC, the report addresses significant issues on which we need to see demonstrable progress. The report is extensive, and I have focused on only a few issues that have been central to my work as an MSP.

It is only a few weeks since the publication of the report into policing during the miners’ strike, which made it clear that when the police become isolated from the community, and lack transparency and accountability, the souring of that relationship can last for years, and it can be difficult to rebuild trust. Our police force must be welcoming and inclusive to all, which can only strengthen its position in our communities.

16:12  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22450, in the name of Liam Kerr, on the independent review of complaints handling, investigations and mis...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her “Independent Review of Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues in Relation to Policing”. It is a sober...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I have, of course, spoken to Police Scotland, the SPA, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and other key stakeholders about recommendations in the...
Liam Kerr Con
Yes, of course I have. In order to assist the cabinet secretary, I will provide a suggestion. It came from Moi Ali, but will be endorsed by many stakeholders...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank the Conservatives for lodging the motion. Far from shirking responsibility, I think that we have an excellent opportunity to debate an excellent and ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I will ask the cabinet secretary a simple question. Did he ask the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans whether a statement could be made on the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans and I have been discussing how difficult the timetable is in the run up to the end of the year; there is...
Liam Kerr Con
It is notable that the minister came straight to the chamber to give a ministerial statement on the interim report. The difference is interesting. Will the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I was the minister who was in charge when the interim report was published in June 2019. I do not think that the action tracker is a bad idea. I am more tha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We go to Rhoda Grant. You have four minutes, Ms Grant. I should also say that you should speak to and move your amendment S5M-23450.1. 15:40
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the publication of Elish Angiolini’s report. Two years ago, Scottish Labour’s Daniel Johnson raised concerns about how police complaints were being...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini, her team and everyone who contributed to what is a significant piece of work that has rightly received a warm welcome, includin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liam Kerr for giving Parliament the opportunity to briefly consider the report that Dame Elish Angiolini has produced. As he observed, it is regretta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for being so succinct. We move to the open debate. We are pushed for time, so speeches should be of no more than four minutes. 15:52
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I start at what I consider to be the beginning and with what should be emphasised: our police officers do an often difficult job very well indeed. We should ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a very important debate and I thank the Conservatives for bringing it to the chamber. It is important for a number of reasons, but primarily because ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I recall that, in the 2013 parliamentary debate about the merger of Scotland’s eight police forces, my colleague John Lamont expressed his concerns not about...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is fundamental in any democracy that the police service is held to account for its actions. I am sure that Parliament will agree that the “Independent Rev...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon’s debate. Dame Elish Angiolini has produced a significant and wide-ranging report, which has many import...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I also thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her hard work in compiling a comprehensive report with 81 recommendations, which build on the many recommendations in t...
Liam Kerr Con
In the Government’s amendment to the motion, the cabinet secretary says that he will respond to the report in the new year. Does Shona Robison think that it ...
Shona Robison SNP
We have heard some of its response today. As the work is taken forward in detail, it is important that all stakeholders and, indeed, the Parliament are invol...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks of members across the chamber to Dame Elish Angiolini for her wide-ranging and thorough report, and I thank the Conservatives for lodging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Thank you—you finished just as I was about to say, “You must conclude”. 16:21
Humza Yousaf SNP
It has been a helpful debate. Let me address some of the key points that members raised. The point that Daniel Johnson made about officers from a minority e...
Liam Kerr Con
On that point, does the cabinet secretary accept that the SNP has, in the past, undermined the independence of the PIRC, which has led to some of the problem...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, I do not accept that at all. On Liam Kerr’s point—which I think was also raised by one or two other members—about the Government needing to come forward...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Margaret Mitchell to close for the Conservatives. You have up to six minutes. 16:27
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In 2017, the Justice Committee decided to carry out post-legislative scrutiny of the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, which had established a sing...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member at least acknowledge that 21 of the 30 recommendations have been partly or fully implemented? It would not make sense to deliver legislation ...