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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020

25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Policing (Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues) (Independent Review)
Mackay, Rona SNP Strathkelvin and Bearsden Watch on SPTV

This is a very important debate and I thank the Conservatives for bringing it to the chamber. It is important for a number of reasons, but primarily because the public must have access to a comprehensive and fair system for complaints, investigations and misconduct issues in relation to the police.

The report from Dame Elish Angiolini is extremely detailed—it runs to 489 pages and 81 recommendations, which in itself speaks volumes about the complexity of the issue. It is clear that there is a lot for Police Scotland, the SPA, the PIRC and the Scottish Government to consider.

As a member of both the Justice Committee and the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing since 2016, I have been extremely impressed with the professionalism and ethics of Police Scotland, which consistently co-operates with both committees fully and transparently. The Covid-19 pandemic has demonstrated that, even under extreme pressure, Police Scotland can operate in a proportionate and efficient manner to maintain public confidence.

That said, there are issues relating to individual cases, some of which have been highlighted today by Liam Kerr and Liam McArthur. Those issues throw up questions, and there must be an effective process for dealing with them. Some high-profile historical cases have demonstrated an urgent need for reform of the complaints system. In any democracy, the police service must be held to account for its actions if a complaint is raised, because police officers are, like everyone, human and fallible, and things go wrong. The report lays out starkly the challenges that exist with regard to the complaints procedure and, at times, the deficiencies in the historical culture of Police Scotland.

As the cabinet secretary said, many of the report’s recommendations require legislation, which the Government will consider, informed by stakeholder views. Many of the recommendations have already been progressed following Dame Elish’s interim report, which was published in June 2019. For example, Police Scotland has worked to make its complaints system clearer and more accessible on its website, and it has resolved many complaints simply through direct conversation with the complainant, rather than by instigating a lengthy multistage process.

Chief Constable Iain Livingstone has made it extremely clear that discriminatory attitudes have no place in a modern police service, and Police Scotland is working hard to address those matters by developing diversity and equality in the force. However, the report notes—as Rhoda Grant highlighted—that there has been discriminatory treatment of minority groups. I find that deeply troubling; I agree with Dame Elish’s recommendations in that respect and I hope that measures to address those issues are progressed urgently. The cabinet secretary confirmed today that the chief constable has already agreed to a fundamental review of that area, which I welcome.

There are also recommendations on death-in-custody investigations, structural changes and additional powers for the PIRC, and on giving a basis in statute to gross misconduct hearings and a code of ethics.

There is so much in the report that it is possible only to scratch the surface of the detail in a short speech. Dame Elish Angiolini will give evidence to the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing on 7 December, and I look forward to hearing more on the detail of the report.

The report is very welcome, as a review of the complaints system was very much needed. I congratulate Dame Elish Angiolini on what is an enormous body of work, and I acknowledge the steps that have already been taken by Police Scotland to address some fundamental issues. That is vital to ensuring that the public can have full confidence and pride in our national police force.

16:00  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22450, in the name of Liam Kerr, on the independent review of complaints handling, investigations and mis...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her “Independent Review of Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues in Relation to Policing”. It is a sober...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I have, of course, spoken to Police Scotland, the SPA, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and other key stakeholders about recommendations in the...
Liam Kerr Con
Yes, of course I have. In order to assist the cabinet secretary, I will provide a suggestion. It came from Moi Ali, but will be endorsed by many stakeholders...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank the Conservatives for lodging the motion. Far from shirking responsibility, I think that we have an excellent opportunity to debate an excellent and ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I will ask the cabinet secretary a simple question. Did he ask the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans whether a statement could be made on the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans and I have been discussing how difficult the timetable is in the run up to the end of the year; there is...
Liam Kerr Con
It is notable that the minister came straight to the chamber to give a ministerial statement on the interim report. The difference is interesting. Will the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I was the minister who was in charge when the interim report was published in June 2019. I do not think that the action tracker is a bad idea. I am more tha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We go to Rhoda Grant. You have four minutes, Ms Grant. I should also say that you should speak to and move your amendment S5M-23450.1. 15:40
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the publication of Elish Angiolini’s report. Two years ago, Scottish Labour’s Daniel Johnson raised concerns about how police complaints were being...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini, her team and everyone who contributed to what is a significant piece of work that has rightly received a warm welcome, includin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liam Kerr for giving Parliament the opportunity to briefly consider the report that Dame Elish Angiolini has produced. As he observed, it is regretta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for being so succinct. We move to the open debate. We are pushed for time, so speeches should be of no more than four minutes. 15:52
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I start at what I consider to be the beginning and with what should be emphasised: our police officers do an often difficult job very well indeed. We should ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a very important debate and I thank the Conservatives for bringing it to the chamber. It is important for a number of reasons, but primarily because ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I recall that, in the 2013 parliamentary debate about the merger of Scotland’s eight police forces, my colleague John Lamont expressed his concerns not about...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is fundamental in any democracy that the police service is held to account for its actions. I am sure that Parliament will agree that the “Independent Rev...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon’s debate. Dame Elish Angiolini has produced a significant and wide-ranging report, which has many import...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I also thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her hard work in compiling a comprehensive report with 81 recommendations, which build on the many recommendations in t...
Liam Kerr Con
In the Government’s amendment to the motion, the cabinet secretary says that he will respond to the report in the new year. Does Shona Robison think that it ...
Shona Robison SNP
We have heard some of its response today. As the work is taken forward in detail, it is important that all stakeholders and, indeed, the Parliament are invol...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks of members across the chamber to Dame Elish Angiolini for her wide-ranging and thorough report, and I thank the Conservatives for lodging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Thank you—you finished just as I was about to say, “You must conclude”. 16:21
Humza Yousaf SNP
It has been a helpful debate. Let me address some of the key points that members raised. The point that Daniel Johnson made about officers from a minority e...
Liam Kerr Con
On that point, does the cabinet secretary accept that the SNP has, in the past, undermined the independence of the PIRC, which has led to some of the problem...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, I do not accept that at all. On Liam Kerr’s point—which I think was also raised by one or two other members—about the Government needing to come forward...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Margaret Mitchell to close for the Conservatives. You have up to six minutes. 16:27
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In 2017, the Justice Committee decided to carry out post-legislative scrutiny of the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, which had established a sing...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member at least acknowledge that 21 of the 30 recommendations have been partly or fully implemented? It would not make sense to deliver legislation ...