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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020

25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Policing (Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues) (Independent Review)
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her “Independent Review of Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues in Relation to Policing”. It is a sobering and, at times, shocking read. It tells us this: the Scottish National Party’s system of police complaints and governance has been broken since inception.

Dame Elish’s forensic analysis has been described as a “watershed moment” for policing in Scotland, and fixing the SNP’s apparatus is vital in order that we can repair and enhance public confidence. However, the SNP got the report, issued a bland press release, then disappeared, which is why the Scottish Conservatives have called for this debate in Opposition time.

The debate is also about supporting and protecting the thousands of police officers to whom we all owe an immense debt of gratitude. Those men and women selflessly keep us safe every day, and nothing that will be said by Conservative members—or, I am sure, by members from all across the chamber—will question their commitment, ability or professionalism. They deserve to know that the complaints process is efficient, transparent, proportionate and fair.

Yesterday, Douglas Ross and I met a group of women from different parts of our policing community. They included a former constable, a firearms officer, a senior officer and a former Scottish Police Authority board member. They had all experienced injustice that was, thanks to the structures that were implemented in a rush by the SNP, the starting point for something worse. When they engaged with the complaints process, they were let down. Not only were careers ruined, but some of those people suffered ill health and life-changing financial loss.

Karen Harper spent 22 years as a constable in Lanarkshire and Dumfriesshire before being forced to retire through ill health. Later, she won her sex discrimination claim. Ms Harper describes the report as an

“exoneration for myself and many other officers betrayed by the fundamentally unfair system”.

What angers Ms Harper most is that the corrosive saga that has consumed her life for five long years could have been prevented at the outset, if only the system had been fair. She tried everything. In 2015, she even contacted the First Minister. She began by saying that writing was a “last resort”. However, all she got back was a brief and impersonal letter from a junior civil servant, which did not address any of the serious and specific issues that she had raised.

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice will, no doubt, remind me that it is not politicians’ place to meddle in processes or to influence public bodies in discharging their duties, but what happens when the systems that have been put in place to protect the public and police officers fail?

Since the creation of Police Scotland seven years ago, there has been a relentless flow of troubling revelations around the complaints process and governance. I spoke with Moi Ali, who is a former member of the Scottish Police Authority. Ms Ali resigned over concerns about lack of transparency, which was contrary to the public interest and good governance, and she spoke out—but nothing substantive has changed.

I also spoke with Angela Wilson, who is a former assistant chief constable in Tayside. She bemoaned the “deafening silence” from the Scottish Government on the report—and she was surely right to do so. Ms Wilson believes that major change is necessary for Scotland to achieve a diverse police service that truly reflects those whom it represents. How do we do that?

Dame Elish has made more than 100 recommendations in her preliminary and final reports. We do not have time today to give proper consideration to the relative merits of each recommendation, but we can, in this debate, focus on some of the most fundamental ones, including the need for the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner to be truly independent and to be given the power that it needs in order to become an effective watchdog. Dame Elish has also rightly stated that PIRC should no longer be answerable to ministers, but to the Scottish Parliament.

Dame Elish has recommended that the Scottish Police Authority be stripped of its power to investigate senior officers. She cited possible perception of bias due to their close working relationship.

Another recommendation is the need for serious misconduct proceedings to continue against officers even if they resign or retire. On that point, Dame Elish urges the Scottish Government to work with the United Kingdom Government to adopt good practice from England and Wales by extending barred and advisory lists to Police Scotland. Those lists are public databases of officers who have been dismissed for gross misconduct or who left while being investigated.

There are numerous other areas in which Dame Elish urges the Scottish Government to learn something about transparency from our friends in the rest of the UK. They include the holding of police gross misconduct hearings in public, as happens in other professions, and allowing for accelerated misconduct hearings in cases with apparently incontrovertible evidence of guilt.

Some of those things require amendment of existing legislation or new laws; others need structural, procedural or even cultural changes within Police Scotland, the SPA or PIRC. All of them need ministers to act.

What has been notable—worrying, even—has been the response so far from the SNP. Dame Elish’s 150,000-word 500-page publication was made public two weeks ago today, and was on ministerial desks prior to that. The SNP’s response has been a bland press release that contained little more than vague platitudes and completely lacked any firm commitment to act. Hiding behind the defence that the SNP commissioned the report in the first place is rendered meaningless by inaction. We need action.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22450, in the name of Liam Kerr, on the independent review of complaints handling, investigations and mis...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her “Independent Review of Complaints Handling, Investigations and Misconduct Issues in Relation to Policing”. It is a sober...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I have, of course, spoken to Police Scotland, the SPA, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and other key stakeholders about recommendations in the...
Liam Kerr Con
Yes, of course I have. In order to assist the cabinet secretary, I will provide a suggestion. It came from Moi Ali, but will be endorsed by many stakeholders...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank the Conservatives for lodging the motion. Far from shirking responsibility, I think that we have an excellent opportunity to debate an excellent and ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I will ask the cabinet secretary a simple question. Did he ask the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans whether a statement could be made on the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans and I have been discussing how difficult the timetable is in the run up to the end of the year; there is...
Liam Kerr Con
It is notable that the minister came straight to the chamber to give a ministerial statement on the interim report. The difference is interesting. Will the ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I was the minister who was in charge when the interim report was published in June 2019. I do not think that the action tracker is a bad idea. I am more tha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We go to Rhoda Grant. You have four minutes, Ms Grant. I should also say that you should speak to and move your amendment S5M-23450.1. 15:40
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the publication of Elish Angiolini’s report. Two years ago, Scottish Labour’s Daniel Johnson raised concerns about how police complaints were being...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank Dame Elish Angiolini, her team and everyone who contributed to what is a significant piece of work that has rightly received a warm welcome, includin...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liam Kerr for giving Parliament the opportunity to briefly consider the report that Dame Elish Angiolini has produced. As he observed, it is regretta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for being so succinct. We move to the open debate. We are pushed for time, so speeches should be of no more than four minutes. 15:52
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I start at what I consider to be the beginning and with what should be emphasised: our police officers do an often difficult job very well indeed. We should ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a very important debate and I thank the Conservatives for bringing it to the chamber. It is important for a number of reasons, but primarily because ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I recall that, in the 2013 parliamentary debate about the merger of Scotland’s eight police forces, my colleague John Lamont expressed his concerns not about...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is fundamental in any democracy that the police service is held to account for its actions. I am sure that Parliament will agree that the “Independent Rev...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon’s debate. Dame Elish Angiolini has produced a significant and wide-ranging report, which has many import...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I also thank Dame Elish Angiolini for her hard work in compiling a comprehensive report with 81 recommendations, which build on the many recommendations in t...
Liam Kerr Con
In the Government’s amendment to the motion, the cabinet secretary says that he will respond to the report in the new year. Does Shona Robison think that it ...
Shona Robison SNP
We have heard some of its response today. As the work is taken forward in detail, it is important that all stakeholders and, indeed, the Parliament are invol...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks of members across the chamber to Dame Elish Angiolini for her wide-ranging and thorough report, and I thank the Conservatives for lodging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Thank you—you finished just as I was about to say, “You must conclude”. 16:21
Humza Yousaf SNP
It has been a helpful debate. Let me address some of the key points that members raised. The point that Daniel Johnson made about officers from a minority e...
Liam Kerr Con
On that point, does the cabinet secretary accept that the SNP has, in the past, undermined the independence of the PIRC, which has led to some of the problem...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, I do not accept that at all. On Liam Kerr’s point—which I think was also raised by one or two other members—about the Government needing to come forward...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Margaret Mitchell to close for the Conservatives. You have up to six minutes. 16:27
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In 2017, the Justice Committee decided to carry out post-legislative scrutiny of the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, which had established a sing...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member at least acknowledge that 21 of the 30 recommendations have been partly or fully implemented? It would not make sense to deliver legislation ...