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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 18 November 2020

18 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Safe Schools

I am grateful to Ross Greer and the Scottish Greens for lodging the motion, which we support. I put on the record my deep gratitude to pupils, staff and parents for all their efforts.

I declare an interest in the debate as the parent of a 14-year-old daughter. She is in S3 and she is enjoying being back at school, largely, I suspect, because she is getting to spend time with her friends.

Young people have missed out on so much during the pandemic, and they have not escaped the pain that has been caused by the virus—especially those who have been affected by close family bereavements. As the motion states, almost 30,000 pupils and more than 2,600 staff have been absent from school for Covid reasons. Those figures are one week old, but they are worrying.

Absence rates are affecting areas with higher levels of deprivation more, and the impacts are uneven across Scotland. I note from the Public Health Scotland report that was published today that the proportion of schools with pupils who have tested positive is highest in the NHS Lanarkshire and NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde areas. We need to understand better the link between self-isolation cases and deprivation, because parents in such areas will be the least likely to be able to afford private tuition to top up their children’s education, and we are just going to see a further increase in the attainment gap.

As one teacher put it to me, schools are open full time, but they are not providing full-time education. We have to be honest about the experience of young people in schools. I can think of one young person who has not played her instrument in school since March, and others have not been able to fully participate in physical education. What more can we do to make sure that young people get the full education experience?

Ross Greer is absolutely right. Schools are struggling, and it is partly about resources. I hear what Clare Adamson says about the need for councils to interpret the guidance properly, but teachers and school staff are drowning in emails and instructions. This week, we have had headteachers saying in the media that they are up until 2 o’clock in the morning dealing with contact tracing issues. I have constituents telling me that they are going through closed-circuit television footage to work out who was standing next to who in break-out areas. We are giving school staff a very difficult task.

We also need to be honest about the fact that, as Iain Gray said, there has already been a lot of disruption. Some young people have had to isolate more than once. Last night, I read that a school in Glenrothes has 400 pupils self-isolating, which is half of the school roll, and a small number of them have Covid, as do a small number of teachers.

We should not easily dismiss the number of young people who are getting Covid, because we do not yet know enough about the virus to fully understand the long-term health impacts for young people.

I am pleased that other speakers have mentioned pregnancy. I have a constituent in Lanarkshire who should be working at home, and she is getting very different advice from colleagues in other parts of the country. I say to the cabinet secretary that we cannot have a postcode lottery on health and safety.

I have an interest as a Lanarkshire resident: we are going to level 4 on Friday. Eleven local authorities in total are, so I understand why the EIS is calling for blended or remote learning in those areas.

This morning, Professor Leitch told the COVID-19 Committee that it is impossible to know where people are catching Covid. I understand why he is saying that, but we also keep hearing that it is not coming from schools. It is fair to say that people are losing a bit of confidence. We need more transparency and we need to see more data. As colleagues have said, we need more resources and support for our teachers, our young people and our families.

15:35  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23385, in the name of Ross Greer, on safe schools. 14:51
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I know that I speak on behalf of us all when I say thank you to every teacher, member of school staff, pupil, parent and carer for their efforts over the pas...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome the debate. I whole-heartedly agree with the point in the motion that “education is best delivered in the classroom”. I also agree that keeping o...
Ross Greer Green
On the cabinet secretary’s point about data suggesting that there is no significant transmission between pupils in schools, will he respond to the issues tha...
John Swinney SNP
The point that I was making was about the evidence that has emerged from the PCR—polymerase chain reaction—testing that is undertaken on children. It is indi...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Ross Greer for using his party’s time for this debate. We disagree on many things, but on education we share a passion to get it right for every chil...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I support the motion and I associate myself with the remarks of Ross Greer and the Deputy First Minister, in particular, about the efforts of local authoriti...
John Swinney SNP
I want to make explicit that the papers were prepared to inform the debate and not because the debate was happening; the statistics were pre-scheduled to be ...
Iain Gray Lab
I take that point and accept it absolutely. However, concerns about whether schools should remain open are not new and it would have been helpful if the stat...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, echo what others have said about the hard work of teachers, pupils and local authorities in the recent challenging months. I am pleased that safe sch...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now move to the open debate. 15:19
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Like many members, I represent constituents who will be moved into level 4 restrictions from Friday. The prevalence of Covid in Glasgow remains, as the First...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I apologise for the fact that we were not able to see Patrick Harvie, although we certainly heard him. 15:22
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I thank Ross Greer for securing the debate and I echo his and other members’ praise for the efforts of our teachers and our school communities at this time. ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will Clare Adamson take an intervention?
Clare Adamson SNP
I will take an intervention from Mr Halcro Johnston.
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
Is Clare Adamson absolutely sure that there are not children and young people who have been missing out at school because they do not have the technology or ...
Clare Adamson SNP
I think that the issue is about local implementation. I have examples from one local authority area, where one school is ensuring that home support, digital ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When future generations come to study the Covid era, I am certain that two things will stand out: first, the extraordinarily difficult decisions that all Gov...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to Ross Greer and the Scottish Greens for lodging the motion, which we support. I put on the record my deep gratitude to pupils, staff and pare...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Education and Skills Committee, I am pleased to be able to speak in the debate, which is on such an important topic. There are points in ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
As we face the crisis that is caused by the Covid pandemic, it is incumbent on us to continue to question and challenge, and to continue to ask ourselves whe...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I welcome the recognition around the chamber that the pandemic has been difficult for pupils and teachers across our schools. It is right that we are able to...
John Swinney SNP
I agree with a lot of what has been discussed in the debate. I think that Mr Greer characterised it fairly when he said that there is not an awful lot of dif...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the cabinet secretary acknowledge that the ability to implement such measures comes down to schools having enough resources so that teachers are freed u...
John Swinney SNP
I do not think that that is a fair point: if a member of staff is judged clinically not fit to be at school, they should not be at school, and there should b...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
Of course.
Johann Lamont Lab
I will take the cabinet secretary away from Twitter for once. My concern is about disadvantaged young people who are not engaging with education at all. Wha...