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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 18 November 2020

18 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Safe Schools

Like many members, I represent constituents who will be moved into level 4 restrictions from Friday. The prevalence of Covid in Glasgow remains, as the First Minister said, stubbornly high, and that is having an impact on our schools as well as on the wider community. School absences—of staff and of pupils—are widespread. Last week, hundreds of children were absent due to Covid in one Glasgow secondary school, and most schools in the city have now been affected by positive cases. Children’s learning is, inevitably, being disrupted, and many teachers and support staff have well-founded concerns about their own safety, as well as that of the wider community. It is right that we listen to them.

I have heard those concerns from teachers across Glasgow and beyond. They have reported pupils being told to attend school while awaiting test results and they have reported inconsistent approaches to other essential safety and hygiene measures. Further, when it comes to social distancing, every constituent who has contacted me about school safety has said quite simply that it is impossible to socially distance in school classrooms and schools, irrespective of pupil age.

Medically at-risk teachers, such as those who were previously shielding, have an even greater sense of fear for their health. They are committed to their jobs, and many of them are highly experienced teachers, but their safety must not simply be set aside. Despite repeated calls for local authorities to allow home working or safer alternative working arrangements, the director of education at Glasgow City Council maintains that it is not possible to undertake the role of teacher at home. One medically at-risk teacher wrote to me to explain how they provided their local authority with an occupational health report, two consultant letters and evidence from their GP saying that they should work from home but that that request was refused on the basis that teachers should not be working from home. Another constituent, who was previously shielding, said:

“I have repeatedly been told that my only option is to ‘go on the sick’. However, as I just completed my probation year with GCC, I am not entitled to sick pay. My options are therefore to continue working and risking my life or apply for benefits. I am a trained teacher, who is capable of working.”

Members of the Educational Institute of Scotland in Glasgow are now having to consider taking collective grievances to address their health and safety concerns for pregnant and vulnerable staff. That is a situation that everybody, including the cabinet secretary, should find unacceptable.

There are, clearly, questions that Glasgow City Council and other local authorities need to address but, right now, they are acting in a vacuum, given the absence of a clear, consistent national strategy from the Government on this issue. Everybody wants to keep schools open, but the precondition for that is to keep them safe, and, for that to happen, the Scottish Government must provide better guidance and more resources. I hope that that is the clear direction that will be given by the Parliament today.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23385, in the name of Ross Greer, on safe schools. 14:51
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I know that I speak on behalf of us all when I say thank you to every teacher, member of school staff, pupil, parent and carer for their efforts over the pas...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome the debate. I whole-heartedly agree with the point in the motion that “education is best delivered in the classroom”. I also agree that keeping o...
Ross Greer Green
On the cabinet secretary’s point about data suggesting that there is no significant transmission between pupils in schools, will he respond to the issues tha...
John Swinney SNP
The point that I was making was about the evidence that has emerged from the PCR—polymerase chain reaction—testing that is undertaken on children. It is indi...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Ross Greer for using his party’s time for this debate. We disagree on many things, but on education we share a passion to get it right for every chil...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I support the motion and I associate myself with the remarks of Ross Greer and the Deputy First Minister, in particular, about the efforts of local authoriti...
John Swinney SNP
I want to make explicit that the papers were prepared to inform the debate and not because the debate was happening; the statistics were pre-scheduled to be ...
Iain Gray Lab
I take that point and accept it absolutely. However, concerns about whether schools should remain open are not new and it would have been helpful if the stat...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, echo what others have said about the hard work of teachers, pupils and local authorities in the recent challenging months. I am pleased that safe sch...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now move to the open debate. 15:19
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Like many members, I represent constituents who will be moved into level 4 restrictions from Friday. The prevalence of Covid in Glasgow remains, as the First...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I apologise for the fact that we were not able to see Patrick Harvie, although we certainly heard him. 15:22
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I thank Ross Greer for securing the debate and I echo his and other members’ praise for the efforts of our teachers and our school communities at this time. ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will Clare Adamson take an intervention?
Clare Adamson SNP
I will take an intervention from Mr Halcro Johnston.
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
Is Clare Adamson absolutely sure that there are not children and young people who have been missing out at school because they do not have the technology or ...
Clare Adamson SNP
I think that the issue is about local implementation. I have examples from one local authority area, where one school is ensuring that home support, digital ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When future generations come to study the Covid era, I am certain that two things will stand out: first, the extraordinarily difficult decisions that all Gov...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to Ross Greer and the Scottish Greens for lodging the motion, which we support. I put on the record my deep gratitude to pupils, staff and pare...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Education and Skills Committee, I am pleased to be able to speak in the debate, which is on such an important topic. There are points in ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
As we face the crisis that is caused by the Covid pandemic, it is incumbent on us to continue to question and challenge, and to continue to ask ourselves whe...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I welcome the recognition around the chamber that the pandemic has been difficult for pupils and teachers across our schools. It is right that we are able to...
John Swinney SNP
I agree with a lot of what has been discussed in the debate. I think that Mr Greer characterised it fairly when he said that there is not an awful lot of dif...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the cabinet secretary acknowledge that the ability to implement such measures comes down to schools having enough resources so that teachers are freed u...
John Swinney SNP
I do not think that that is a fair point: if a member of staff is judged clinically not fit to be at school, they should not be at school, and there should b...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
Of course.
Johann Lamont Lab
I will take the cabinet secretary away from Twitter for once. My concern is about disadvantaged young people who are not engaging with education at all. Wha...