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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 12 November 2020

12 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Mackay, Rona SNP Strathkelvin and Bearsden Watch on SPTV

I am not a member of the committee that has introduced the bill, and I defer to other members who clearly know far more about it than I do. Nevertheless, I am pleased to speak in this debate on pre-release access to official statistics. I have to admit that I am slightly out of my comfort zone. I have always had a bit of an aversion to the word “statistics”. However, this is an important issue that has wide-ranging implications.

Official statistics must be properly understood by stakeholders and the public. Pre-release access is central to the Scottish statistics system and best supports it by making official statistics available in advance of publication to specific individuals who have not been involved in their production. As we have heard, the practice allows ministers and others to make informed comments at the time when figures are published, to answer questions and to flesh out statistics in an informed manner.

I understand that there is opposition to the practice—we have heard that in the debate. However, the public, the Parliament and the media expect ministers to be able to respond to statistics when they are released. It is important to say that pre-release access is a matter decided by the chief statistician, the independence of whose role is crucial.

In addition, as other members have said, PRA is not granted solely to the Scottish ministers. There has been a long-standing practice of granting it to the Scotland Office on GDP statistics, and to HM Treasury on GERS figures. It has been a well-established practice in Scotland since 2008. Such access is made under powers in the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007, which allows the Scottish ministers to set rules on PRA for Scottish devolved statistics.

Pre-release access is important from the point of view of statistical integrity. Statisticians need to know that questions can be answered in an informed way that adds worth to statistics and avoids misinterpretation of the work that they have carried out.

We know that evidence and statistics have been at the heart of the Scottish Government’s response to Covid-19. Members’ inboxes fill daily with messages from people who want evidence on the various measures that are being introduced to keep everyone safe. That is why statistics are so important. The First Minister’s full and informed daily briefings on statistics during this terrible pandemic have built up significant trust in the numbers. That has been possible due to the figures being made available through pre-release access. The public and the Parliament expect ministers to comment not only on statistics themselves but on their policy implications.

The practice of granting pre-release access is not about the Scottish ministers using their legal powers to obtain a first-mover advantage; it is essential for good governance, and it covers all aspects of policy making in Scotland today. There is no compelling evidence to suggest that the Scottish Government should change its adopted position on PRA, and it is certainly not an issue that should be determined by party politics. What is important is ensuring that the public are aware that official statistics are being produced and published by professional statisticians and that, in line with the code of practice for statistics, there is no political interference in that process.

I believe that the Scottish Government’s position on PRA is sensible and necessary. Now is certainly not the time to start making changes to it.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23289, in the name of Gordon Lindhurst, on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Why raise the same issue in November 2018, in September 2019 and again today? Why, given the no shortage of other problems in the world, persist with a focus...
The Minister for Public Finance and Migration (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill, which is a committee bill. The Government has ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
The minister has mentioned a series of bodies to which statistics are released in a pre-release form. In a sense, however, that does not get to the nub of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time in hand, minister, so that intervention does not impact on your speaking time.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Mr Wightman for his intervention. On the latter point, I have clearly stated our position, and I appreciate the nuance...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
In its written evidence to the committee, the Royal Statistical Society’s opinion was that reform “would be warmly welcomed by all those committed to statis...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
The convener started by reading out a list. I will do likewise to make the point that all the experts agree. The minister said that we should follow the advi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes, please. I have a little time in hand for interventions. 16:32
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful to take part in the debate, as I was involved in the topic as deputy convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee at that time, and ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I will immediately respond to one part of Jackie Baillie’s contribution. There is no “secrecy” about any of the statistics that are part of this debate. The ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
Official statistics are important in all democracies, enabling us to hold our Governments to account, no matter what party we are in or who is in power. It i...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
First, I have to say that I regret the personal attacks with which the Opposition came in today on members who are not here and who cannot defend themselves....
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lyle SNP
No, I will not. The member lost that right when he started personal attacks on people. He will not interrupt. It is better—
Daniel Johnson Lab
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I urge the member to clarify his statement. He has just made the serious allegation that I have besmirched the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not a point of order. Would Mr Lyle like to respond before he moves on?
Richard Lyle SNP
They can give it out but they cannot take it. My comment was not aimed at Daniel Johnson. It is better that ministers are involved in the orderly release of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
It can be difficult when we are in a hybrid situation, because the system does not allow interventions when people are taking part remotely. Sometimes, that ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Ben Macpherson said that the debate is a distraction. I do not think that it is a distraction. It is an important debate because it gets to the heart of the ...
John Mason SNP
I take James Kelly’s point, but how would the PRA affect those figures about poverty in Glasgow?
James Kelly Lab
It is a fair point, which I will address as I go through my speech. I commend the committee for introducing the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (S...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
We have heard some away-with-the-fairies speeches this afternoon. It is strange that pre-release access to Government statistics was enjoyed for eight years...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, thank you. The chief statistician also said that pre-release access has been working well since the 2008 order, and long before it; that the Scottish Go...
Andy Wightman Green
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, I have hardly any time left—my apologies. It is part of the day job that ministers do for the whole country. People expect them to get facts and figures...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I am not a member of the committee that has introduced the bill, and I defer to other members who clearly know far more about it than I do. Nevertheless, I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the closing speeches. 17:04
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee, not just because I had the pleasure of taking part in one of its evidence sessions when I was a substitute member, but because the iss...