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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 12 November 2020

12 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Coffey, Willie SNP Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley Watch on SPTV

We have heard some away-with-the-fairies speeches this afternoon.

It is strange that pre-release access to Government statistics was enjoyed for eight years by our predecessors, who are now sitting over there on the Labour benches, and still is by the Tories in another place, but it is only when the SNP Government has the same privilege that it becomes a problem. What has taken them so long to come up with that? I think that they have been exposed by their points of view on that today.

It has been interesting to hear the different perspectives on a subject that could have been sorted out some time ago with perhaps a little compromise. Whether to continue to grant pre-release access to Scottish ministers to certain classes of statistical data, or whether to alter that arrangement, is not exactly up there in the list of priorities of the Scottish people at the moment. My constituents in Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley email me daily about plenty of issues, but I am fairly certain that this is not one of them. However, here we are.

I have read the committee’s report, and I am still a little confused as to what its members wanted. Three strands or alternatives were suggested, with varying adjustments to the current arrangements. Perhaps splitting them up like that did not help a great deal, and the committee then being further split did not exactly lend itself to providing a clean simple view on how to take all of this forward. The offer of a compromise from the Government at the time may have been too late in the day and it seems that it did not make much of a difference.

What is the stushie all about? It is about whether the Scottish ministers, and presumably those others who get the same access, should get pre-release access to certain classes of economic data and, if so, to what data and exactly how long in advance.

The chief statistician has made his position clear: that pre-release access is correct and appropriate in order to allow ministers to make informed comments about statistical data, and that it is important for good governance.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23289, in the name of Gordon Lindhurst, on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Why raise the same issue in November 2018, in September 2019 and again today? Why, given the no shortage of other problems in the world, persist with a focus...
The Minister for Public Finance and Migration (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill, which is a committee bill. The Government has ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
The minister has mentioned a series of bodies to which statistics are released in a pre-release form. In a sense, however, that does not get to the nub of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time in hand, minister, so that intervention does not impact on your speaking time.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Mr Wightman for his intervention. On the latter point, I have clearly stated our position, and I appreciate the nuance...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
In its written evidence to the committee, the Royal Statistical Society’s opinion was that reform “would be warmly welcomed by all those committed to statis...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
The convener started by reading out a list. I will do likewise to make the point that all the experts agree. The minister said that we should follow the advi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes, please. I have a little time in hand for interventions. 16:32
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful to take part in the debate, as I was involved in the topic as deputy convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee at that time, and ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I will immediately respond to one part of Jackie Baillie’s contribution. There is no “secrecy” about any of the statistics that are part of this debate. The ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
Official statistics are important in all democracies, enabling us to hold our Governments to account, no matter what party we are in or who is in power. It i...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
First, I have to say that I regret the personal attacks with which the Opposition came in today on members who are not here and who cannot defend themselves....
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lyle SNP
No, I will not. The member lost that right when he started personal attacks on people. He will not interrupt. It is better—
Daniel Johnson Lab
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I urge the member to clarify his statement. He has just made the serious allegation that I have besmirched the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not a point of order. Would Mr Lyle like to respond before he moves on?
Richard Lyle SNP
They can give it out but they cannot take it. My comment was not aimed at Daniel Johnson. It is better that ministers are involved in the orderly release of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
It can be difficult when we are in a hybrid situation, because the system does not allow interventions when people are taking part remotely. Sometimes, that ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Ben Macpherson said that the debate is a distraction. I do not think that it is a distraction. It is an important debate because it gets to the heart of the ...
John Mason SNP
I take James Kelly’s point, but how would the PRA affect those figures about poverty in Glasgow?
James Kelly Lab
It is a fair point, which I will address as I go through my speech. I commend the committee for introducing the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (S...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
We have heard some away-with-the-fairies speeches this afternoon. It is strange that pre-release access to Government statistics was enjoyed for eight years...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, thank you. The chief statistician also said that pre-release access has been working well since the 2008 order, and long before it; that the Scottish Go...
Andy Wightman Green
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, I have hardly any time left—my apologies. It is part of the day job that ministers do for the whole country. People expect them to get facts and figures...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I am not a member of the committee that has introduced the bill, and I defer to other members who clearly know far more about it than I do. Nevertheless, I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the closing speeches. 17:04
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee, not just because I had the pleasure of taking part in one of its evidence sessions when I was a substitute member, but because the iss...