Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 12 November 2020
12 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
First, I have to say that I regret the personal attacks with which the Opposition came in today on members who are not here and who cannot defend themselves. Those attacks were outrageous.
The public, the Parliament and the media expect ministers to be able to respond to statistics. When those responses are released, they are a key element of the production of the official statistics that stakeholders and the public properly understand. The functions of the pre-release bill will therefore hinder an integral part of the Scottish statistics system.
PRA allows ministers and others to make informed commentary when the figures are published. It is a long-standing practice that has been around since before the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Order 2008, which sets out the rules and principles that relate to the granting of pre-release to officials of statistics in their final form prior to their publication.
The importance of pre-release access is not only about commentary, which I will comment on later, but about an integral statistical point of view. Statisticians use the pre-release access period to ensure that those who need to comment on the statistics at the time of their release can do so on an informed basis and without misinterpretation.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23289, in the name of Gordon Lindhurst, on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Why raise the same issue in November 2018, in September 2019 and again today? Why, given the no shortage of other problems in the world, persist with a focus...
The Minister for Public Finance and Migration (Ben Macpherson)
SNP
I am pleased to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill, which is a committee bill. The Government has ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green)
Green
The minister has mentioned a series of bodies to which statistics are released in a pre-release form. In a sense, however, that does not get to the nub of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There is time in hand, minister, so that intervention does not impact on your speaking time.
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Mr Wightman for his intervention. On the latter point, I have clearly stated our position, and I appreciate the nuance...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
In its written evidence to the committee, the Royal Statistical Society’s opinion was that reform “would be warmly welcomed by all those committed to statis...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
The convener started by reading out a list. I will do likewise to make the point that all the experts agree. The minister said that we should follow the advi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes, please. I have a little time in hand for interventions. 16:32
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
I am grateful to take part in the debate, as I was involved in the topic as deputy convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee at that time, and ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I will immediately respond to one part of Jackie Baillie’s contribution. There is no “secrecy” about any of the statistics that are part of this debate. The ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Con
Official statistics are important in all democracies, enabling us to hold our Governments to account, no matter what party we are in or who is in power. It i...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
First, I have to say that I regret the personal attacks with which the Opposition came in today on members who are not here and who cannot defend themselves....
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lyle
SNP
No, I will not. The member lost that right when he started personal attacks on people. He will not interrupt. It is better—
Daniel Johnson
Lab
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I urge the member to clarify his statement. He has just made the serious allegation that I have besmirched the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
That is not a point of order. Would Mr Lyle like to respond before he moves on?
Richard Lyle
SNP
They can give it out but they cannot take it. My comment was not aimed at Daniel Johnson. It is better that ministers are involved in the orderly release of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
It can be difficult when we are in a hybrid situation, because the system does not allow interventions when people are taking part remotely. Sometimes, that ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Ben Macpherson said that the debate is a distraction. I do not think that it is a distraction. It is an important debate because it gets to the heart of the ...
John Mason
SNP
I take James Kelly’s point, but how would the PRA affect those figures about poverty in Glasgow?
James Kelly
Lab
It is a fair point, which I will address as I go through my speech. I commend the committee for introducing the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (S...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
We have heard some away-with-the-fairies speeches this afternoon. It is strange that pre-release access to Government statistics was enjoyed for eight years...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey
SNP
No, thank you. The chief statistician also said that pre-release access has been working well since the 2008 order, and long before it; that the Scottish Go...
Andy Wightman
Green
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey
SNP
No, I have hardly any time left—my apologies. It is part of the day job that ministers do for the whole country. People expect them to get facts and figures...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I am not a member of the committee that has introduced the bill, and I defer to other members who clearly know far more about it than I do. Nevertheless, I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the closing speeches. 17:04
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the committee, not just because I had the pleasure of taking part in one of its evidence sessions when I was a substitute member, but because the iss...