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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 November 2020

11 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Covid-19 Testing (Health and Social Care Workers)

I am pleased to speak in the debate. I was going to offer some statistics, but George Adam and others have done so, in regard to the Scottish Government’s 10,000 tests, and testing of health workers, which is very important.

The debate is about testing. I am going to talk from personal experience. I want to thank all the workers in the hospitals, from the cleaners and porters all the way through to specialists and nurses. I also thank care workers. It is a very difficult situation that everyone finds themselves in.

I know of one person who tested negative. Were they asymptomatic? I do not know. Unfortunately, that person did get Covid. At the time they tested negative, so although the debate is about testing, we have to look at other issues as well. I am quite anxious that if we say that everyone has to be tested every week, or even every couple of days, the other measures to keep the virus under control will be forgotten. I do not mean to say anything against testing, but I think that we need also to look at the other issues.

Care homes have been mentioned a number of times, including by Annie Wells. We have already seen the difficulties in huge care homes and the difficulties in private care homes. With regard to lack of hygiene, we know all about the situation that has been raised in press coverage in relation to a certain privately owned care home, which is one of the biggest privately owned care homes in Scotland and the UK. We need to take that part of the care homes situation out of the debate.

I do not know whether anyone in the chamber knows anyone who has had a test. If they do, they will understand that it is difficult to get an elderly person with dementia to take one, and we cannot force them. Any care home provider or assistant, or anyone who works in a hospital, will say how difficult it is. The test does not involve just a small swab in someone’s mouth; it goes right down the back of their nose and near enough into their throat. We have to remember that. I am not saying that we should not test—I am supportive of the motion and the amendments—but we have to consider the realities of the situation.

The only thing that will stop Covid is people listening to the expert guidance. Testing is important, but for me—not only for me, but for experts and others—testing is not a panacea. A vaccine will be a panacea, but we have to get through this situation until we get the vaccine.

We have to look at the guidance. We have to test, and we have to follow that through, but we must also be vigilant with regard to hygiene, shielding and looking after our older people, and we must not move people about from one care home to another. Testing will not stop infection if the people who provide care do not look after their workers and the people who are living in care homes. I wanted to get that point across, because it is important. Testing is not a panacea; it is a method that must be used along with other things.

16:12  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23296, in the name of Monica Lennon, on routine Covid-19 testing for all health and social care workers. ...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The motion in my name “notes the ongoing threat to life and health posed by COVID-19”. Today, the First Minister informed the country that a further 64 peo...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I will start by making it clear that I agree with Ms Lennon’s motion and Mr Cameron’s amendment, and that all I seek to do with my amendment is to clarify th...
Monica Lennon Lab
I welcome what the cabinet secretary has said so far. Just so that we can get a sense of the scale of the challenge ahead of us, can the cabinet secretary sa...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I cannot quite do the maths. It is not a huge proportion, but I can tell you that the estimate we have of NHS staff in emergency departments, as well as surg...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
During the pandemic, we have seen a heroic effort from all our NHS and social care staff to cope with the demands and pressures that have come to the fore as...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does the member accept that, in any given week, we will not have all 53,000-odd care home staff in care homes to be tested? Some will be off because they are...
Donald Cameron Con
If it is not reasonable, why did the cabinet secretary give assurances that all care home staff would be tested every week? We know that that simply is not ...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
On 24 April, I wrote to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport and said that I considered routine testing for hospital and care workers who were on the f...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
It is a great privilege to follow such an excellent speech from Alison Johnstone. I absolutely associate myself with her remarks. The Liberal Democrats will...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I do not have much time, but I will take the cabinet secretary’s intervention.
Jeane Freeman SNP
If we do not use clinical prioritisation as the way to roll this out, what would the member suggest that we use?
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I refer to the cabinet secretary to my remark a moment ago. We accept the Scottish Government’s amendment on that basis. We absolutely agree that, if the Gov...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. We are tight for time; I ask for four-minute speeches, please. 15:50
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I put on record my thanks to all our NHS and care staff who continue to fight the virus on the front line, and I send my condolences and love to all those wh...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this debate and what the cabinet secretary said about how she wants to work with others to ensure that we can solve the issue. I think that we can...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. As many people have noted in recent weeks and months, the pressure on the NHS this winter will ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
There is a strict four minutes for speakers, now. 16:03
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I first pay tribute to the scientists across the world who have been working night and day to find a vaccine, although we know that there is still a long way...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the debate. I was going to offer some statistics, but George Adam and others have done so, in regard to the Scottish Government’s 10...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Given the excellent speeches that we have heard, I propose to keep my speech relatively short. I always judge leaders on whether they would take the same ri...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I begin by acknowledging the incredible efforts of our NHS and care staff, who continue to be on the front line caring for patients with Covid-19 and working...
Alison Johnstone Green
The Scottish Government’s testing strategy and its nosocomial review group have recognised the importance of routine testing for healthcare workers, so I do ...
Ruth Maguire SNP
Alison Johnstone has consistently made those points, in her speech and before in the chamber, and she has done so again. It is important to note that some s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. 16:19
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I remind members that I have a daughter who is on the front line in the Scottish NHS. As I rise to close on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I thank the...
Jeane Freeman SNP
To respond to Brian Whittle’s point, we not only can do it—we will do it. I, too, express my thanks to all our health and social care staff and our emergenc...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
SNP members who have spoken in the debate have been defensive, but I do not think that there is a need to be defensive. Monica Lennon is calling for all heal...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That concludes the debate on routine Covid-19 testing for all health and social care workers.