Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 November 2020
04 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Care Homes
I am sorry, I have already taken an intervention.
I want a public inquiry to take place, but I genuinely do not think that it is right to have one according to the timing that is set out in the motion. The families of the 2,048 residents who have passed away as a result of Covid-19 deserve answers about what has happened, so it is absolutely correct that an inquiry should happen. However, I believe that attempting to have an immediate inquiry is the wrong thing to do. We are in the midst of a second wave of Covid-19, so we need to focus on dealing with the pandemic that we face. We do not know what will happen after the second wave; members need to appreciate that.
On multiple occasions, the First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport have confirmed—we heard it again today from the cabinet secretary—that a public inquiry will be held that will look into every aspect of what has happened. That is the right thing to do—it is vital for accountability, and in order to ensure that lessons are learned, going forward. However, our attention must be on the crisis at hand so that we ensure that we are as prepared as possible for dealing with a second wave of the virus.
I am conscious of time, so I will conclude. I want a public inquiry—but not at this time, as per the motion.
16:48In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23226, in the name of Donald Cameron, on care homes. 16:04
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to open this important debate, particularly in light of last week’s delayed report by Public Health Scotland. I pay tribut...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman)
SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention and for his comment about the importance of what was, at that point, a shared agreement across the cha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We do not have a lot of time in hand, but Mr Cameron will get all his time back.
Donald Cameron
Con
The cabinet secretary mentioned the guidance on 26 March. That guidance also stated that individuals who were being discharged from hospital did not routinel...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman)
SNP
Covid-19 is a cruel virus that is particularly dangerous for the most elderly and vulnerable in our society. In the first wave, as we have heard, the lives o...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con)
Con
Does the cabinet secretary accept that at the same time that hospital patients were incautiously discharged into care homes, many other hospital patients wer...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I can give you only 30 seconds back, cabinet secretary, so you are nearly in your final minute.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
I do not agree with the member’s characterisation of that as incautious. I believe that we did what we believed to be right at the time with the resources th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I must say to members that, in these short debates, there is no time in hand, so I have to be very strict with the timings. I call Monica Lennon to speak to ...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Care homes have been at the centre of the Covid-19 crisis and, unfortunately, the crisis is far from over. Today, it was confirmed that, sadly, six of my con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Thank you. It is very hard to keep to four minutes in this debate, so well done Ms Lennon. I call Alison Johnstone—you, too, have four minutes. 16:23
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I, too, thank all those who work in care and in our care homes. The clapping might have ceased, but they should be in no doubt that we appreciate the great v...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
What has happened in our care homes is the tragedy of Scotland’s pandemic story. While it certainly did not do it out of malice, by sin of omission and commi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate. I ask members for tight four-minute speeches. 16:32
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I, too, thank care home workers for the compassion that they have shown during the pandemic. This is a really important debate: 2,000 people have died from ...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Would the member like to elucidate on what delay, spin and diversion—I think that that was the other term that she used—I, as cabinet secretary, have engaged...
Rachael Hamilton
Con
As I make progress through my speech, I shall engage with the cabinet secretary on the delays and the publishing of guidance that was removed from the Govern...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Covid-19 is the biggest public health crisis that we have faced in our lifetime, and the impact on care homes across the world has been profound. Every life ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You must conclude.
Emma Harper
SNP
I will conclude, Presiding Officer. I welcome that the Scottish Government will continue to—-
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Conclude means conclude, wherever one is on the planet. 16:40
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I declare an interest as my mum is a resident in a care home and my wife and daughter work in the NHS. I have never worked in a care home and have never bee...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome this short debate, and I thank the Conservatives for securing it. I agree with Donald Cameron’s comments regarding the activities of staff in care ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Stuart McMillan
SNP
Let me finish my point. Most constituents who have contacted me about care homes have been fairly positive about their experiences. Not one person has calle...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Incredible! Absolutely incredible! How many constituents have contacted your office asking for a hate crime bill or an independence referendum while all this...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You are all wasting your debating time. Mr Findlay, I know that it is a teacherly thing to say, but please do not use the word “you” in the chamber. I have ...
Stuart McMillan
SNP
I am telling members about the number of constituents who have contacted my office. I am sorry if Mr Findlay does not appreciate the fact that not one consti...
Stuart McMillan
SNP
I am sorry, I have already taken an intervention. I want a public inquiry to take place, but I genuinely do not think that it is right to have one according...