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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 November 2020

04 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Care Homes

I, too, thank all those who work in care and in our care homes. The clapping might have ceased, but they should be in no doubt that we appreciate the great value that they bring to us all.

Calls for public inquiries are not made lightly, and I appreciate that each and every party in the chamber agrees that there should be a public inquiry. Colleagues who have spoken have outlined their differing views on when such an inquiry should take place. I make it clear that, if the Conservatives had brought this motion to the chamber earlier in the pandemic, I would have resolutely opposed it. However, we now know that 2,048 people have died from Covid in Scotland’s care homes, that 44 per cent of the total deaths from Covid have occurred there and that families across Scotland are grieving. With loss of life on that scale in that specific setting, the case for a separate public inquiry on the issue is clear.

I appreciate that the Government’s amendment seeks an inquiry into all aspects of the response to the pandemic. I do, too, but including care homes in that essential endeavour—an inquiry of such scope—would lead to greater delay. I am gravely concerned for those people from whom we need to hear, who must be given every opportunity to ensure that we can hear from them. If we delay, there is no guarantee that we will have learned all the lessons. We may continue to put lives at risk due to a lack of complete understanding of what happened.

As we know, public inquiries investigate issues of serious public concern. They seek to prevent a recurrence of events that we would always wish to avoid. They need effective information gathering and management, and we need to know now that the necessary information is stored securely. There will be a requirement to ask for and gather evidence, to analyse documents and testimonies and to establish roles and responsibilities and the terms of reference. That must, of course, involve consulting residents and their families, bereaved families and the people who are working to look after them.

All of that will take time. Elderly spouses or partners and the families of people who have lost their lives may not be able to wait, nor should they be asked to. Our shared aim is to save lives and protect people, and the sooner that we understand all the contributory factors to the truly harrowing death toll in our care homes, the better. I believe that an inquiry is an important step to take now to ensure that we are doing all that we need to do in order to prevent avoidable deaths among our oldest citizens.

I welcome the fact that the Scottish Government commissioned Public Health Scotland to carry out work to identify and report on discharges from NHS hospitals to care homes during the first wave of the Covid-19 pandemic, and I welcome the care homes review. As has been said, the PHS report states that,

“after accounting for care home size and other care home characteristics, the estimated risk of”

hospital discharge may reduce and

“is not statistically significant”,

but that will provide no comfort to people who have lost loved ones. It also raises questions about the mitigations that are being put in place in larger care homes.

We now understand what is appropriate personal protective equipment in specific settings, why testing must include asymptomatic people and why masks are important, but do we understand all the interlinking factors that have led to the devastating loss of life in our care homes? I do not believe that we do, and we need to learn them now. The opportunity to do so should not be delayed.

16:28  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23226, in the name of Donald Cameron, on care homes. 16:04
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to open this important debate, particularly in light of last week’s delayed report by Public Health Scotland. I pay tribut...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention and for his comment about the importance of what was, at that point, a shared agreement across the cha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We do not have a lot of time in hand, but Mr Cameron will get all his time back.
Donald Cameron Con
The cabinet secretary mentioned the guidance on 26 March. That guidance also stated that individuals who were being discharged from hospital did not routinel...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
Covid-19 is a cruel virus that is particularly dangerous for the most elderly and vulnerable in our society. In the first wave, as we have heard, the lives o...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary accept that at the same time that hospital patients were incautiously discharged into care homes, many other hospital patients wer...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you only 30 seconds back, cabinet secretary, so you are nearly in your final minute.
Jeane Freeman SNP
I do not agree with the member’s characterisation of that as incautious. I believe that we did what we believed to be right at the time with the resources th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I must say to members that, in these short debates, there is no time in hand, so I have to be very strict with the timings. I call Monica Lennon to speak to ...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Care homes have been at the centre of the Covid-19 crisis and, unfortunately, the crisis is far from over. Today, it was confirmed that, sadly, six of my con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. It is very hard to keep to four minutes in this debate, so well done Ms Lennon. I call Alison Johnstone—you, too, have four minutes. 16:23
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all those who work in care and in our care homes. The clapping might have ceased, but they should be in no doubt that we appreciate the great v...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
What has happened in our care homes is the tragedy of Scotland’s pandemic story. While it certainly did not do it out of malice, by sin of omission and commi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I ask members for tight four-minute speeches. 16:32
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I, too, thank care home workers for the compassion that they have shown during the pandemic. This is a really important debate: 2,000 people have died from ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Would the member like to elucidate on what delay, spin and diversion—I think that that was the other term that she used—I, as cabinet secretary, have engaged...
Rachael Hamilton Con
As I make progress through my speech, I shall engage with the cabinet secretary on the delays and the publishing of guidance that was removed from the Govern...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Covid-19 is the biggest public health crisis that we have faced in our lifetime, and the impact on care homes across the world has been profound. Every life ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude.
Emma Harper SNP
I will conclude, Presiding Officer. I welcome that the Scottish Government will continue to—-
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Conclude means conclude, wherever one is on the planet. 16:40
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest as my mum is a resident in a care home and my wife and daughter work in the NHS. I have never worked in a care home and have never bee...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this short debate, and I thank the Conservatives for securing it. I agree with Donald Cameron’s comments regarding the activities of staff in care ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Stuart McMillan SNP
Let me finish my point. Most constituents who have contacted me about care homes have been fairly positive about their experiences. Not one person has calle...
Neil Findlay Lab
Incredible! Absolutely incredible! How many constituents have contacted your office asking for a hate crime bill or an independence referendum while all this...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all wasting your debating time. Mr Findlay, I know that it is a teacherly thing to say, but please do not use the word “you” in the chamber. I have ...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I am telling members about the number of constituents who have contacted my office. I am sorry if Mr Findlay does not appreciate the fact that not one consti...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I am sorry, I have already taken an intervention. I want a public inquiry to take place, but I genuinely do not think that it is right to have one according...