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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 November 2020

04 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Care Homes
Freeman, Jeane SNP Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley Watch on SPTV

Covid-19 is a cruel virus that is particularly dangerous for the most elderly and vulnerable in our society. In the first wave, as we have heard, the lives of over 2,000 care home residents were lost. That is devastating for their loved ones and for the staff who cared for them, and I will never be able to adequately express my sorrow and condolences to them all.

In moving the amendment in my name, I want to be very clear. As we have said repeatedly, the Government wants and will welcome a public inquiry into the response and handling of the pandemic. There is no dispute about that between us and any other party in the chamber. A public inquiry will be critical for a number of reasons, not least for the lessons that it will draw out for any future Government response to a global pandemic, and the critical improvements to any part of the health and social care infrastructure that will be introduced, or aspects that will stay the same, in preparation for that.

The only disagreement may be about the timing of such an inquiry. Right now, as the number of cases, the rate of test positivity, the number of people in hospital and the number who have died must make crystal clear to all of us, we remain in the middle of a global pandemic. If our ultimate responsibility as a Government is to do all that we can to save lives, then that, without question, must remain our focus.

That is why my amendment sets the timeframe for a public inquiry after the country is through the immediacy of dealing with the pandemic. I would welcome the engagement of all parties in working with us on its remit and scope.

One aspect that we should consider together is whether the inquiry should or could be held on a four-nations basis, because I am conscious of the experience of families who have been affected by blood-borne infections. After Scotland’s Penrose inquiry had reported, the United Kingdom Government instigated a UK-wide inquiry. That meant that people who had been affected by that tragedy had to face reliving it twice.

A public inquiry rightly takes time to reach its conclusions; for example, the Penrose inquiry lasted for almost seven years. Put bluntly, however, we do not have time to wait. That is why we have commissioned a range of independent, expert investigations to get us the recommendations now that we need to act on for this winter.

Members will be familiar with the information that I published yesterday that supports the adult social care winter preparedness plan: the evidence paper and the result of the root cause analysis of outbreaks in care homes. Those were in addition to last week’s independent Public Health Scotland report and the recent Care Inspectorate inquiry into care at home, which will both teach us lessons and which fed into the winter plan.

I turn first to Public Health Scotland’s independent report. It found that, although it could not exclude hospital discharge as a factor associated with outbreaks, that was not the major factor; the key factor was the size of the care home. I am not dismissing either.

Given the highly infectious nature of the disease, any person who comes into a care home carries a risk of infection. That is not to blame anyone—it is simply a statement of fact, just as it is a fact that any one of us who comes into this chamber carries a risk of infection. By the very nature of care homes, the larger one is, the larger the number of people who come into it, whether that is through admissions or whether those people are staff, visitors and others providing essential supplies.

We need to learn and work out how we can help providers work with that finding. Members know that I have agreed with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities that we will continue sustainability funding for social care at October levels and work with providers and others during this month to ensure that people get the support that they need, that organisations that need support are able to access it and that services can be safely sustained. That will include making the changes that we need to make to learn the lessons.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23226, in the name of Donald Cameron, on care homes. 16:04
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to open this important debate, particularly in light of last week’s delayed report by Public Health Scotland. I pay tribut...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention and for his comment about the importance of what was, at that point, a shared agreement across the cha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We do not have a lot of time in hand, but Mr Cameron will get all his time back.
Donald Cameron Con
The cabinet secretary mentioned the guidance on 26 March. That guidance also stated that individuals who were being discharged from hospital did not routinel...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
Covid-19 is a cruel virus that is particularly dangerous for the most elderly and vulnerable in our society. In the first wave, as we have heard, the lives o...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary accept that at the same time that hospital patients were incautiously discharged into care homes, many other hospital patients wer...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you only 30 seconds back, cabinet secretary, so you are nearly in your final minute.
Jeane Freeman SNP
I do not agree with the member’s characterisation of that as incautious. I believe that we did what we believed to be right at the time with the resources th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I must say to members that, in these short debates, there is no time in hand, so I have to be very strict with the timings. I call Monica Lennon to speak to ...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Care homes have been at the centre of the Covid-19 crisis and, unfortunately, the crisis is far from over. Today, it was confirmed that, sadly, six of my con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. It is very hard to keep to four minutes in this debate, so well done Ms Lennon. I call Alison Johnstone—you, too, have four minutes. 16:23
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all those who work in care and in our care homes. The clapping might have ceased, but they should be in no doubt that we appreciate the great v...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
What has happened in our care homes is the tragedy of Scotland’s pandemic story. While it certainly did not do it out of malice, by sin of omission and commi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I ask members for tight four-minute speeches. 16:32
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I, too, thank care home workers for the compassion that they have shown during the pandemic. This is a really important debate: 2,000 people have died from ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Would the member like to elucidate on what delay, spin and diversion—I think that that was the other term that she used—I, as cabinet secretary, have engaged...
Rachael Hamilton Con
As I make progress through my speech, I shall engage with the cabinet secretary on the delays and the publishing of guidance that was removed from the Govern...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Covid-19 is the biggest public health crisis that we have faced in our lifetime, and the impact on care homes across the world has been profound. Every life ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude.
Emma Harper SNP
I will conclude, Presiding Officer. I welcome that the Scottish Government will continue to—-
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Conclude means conclude, wherever one is on the planet. 16:40
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest as my mum is a resident in a care home and my wife and daughter work in the NHS. I have never worked in a care home and have never bee...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this short debate, and I thank the Conservatives for securing it. I agree with Donald Cameron’s comments regarding the activities of staff in care ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Stuart McMillan SNP
Let me finish my point. Most constituents who have contacted me about care homes have been fairly positive about their experiences. Not one person has calle...
Neil Findlay Lab
Incredible! Absolutely incredible! How many constituents have contacted your office asking for a hate crime bill or an independence referendum while all this...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all wasting your debating time. Mr Findlay, I know that it is a teacherly thing to say, but please do not use the word “you” in the chamber. I have ...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I am telling members about the number of constituents who have contacted my office. I am sorry if Mr Findlay does not appreciate the fact that not one consti...
Stuart McMillan SNP
I am sorry, I have already taken an intervention. I want a public inquiry to take place, but I genuinely do not think that it is right to have one according...