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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 November 2020

04 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in support of the Conservative motion. I will come to the substance of the legal advice in a moment. Before I do, I note that this is not the speech that I had originally intended to give. Had my amendment been selected last night, I would have set out why the Parliament should direct the Scottish Government to urgently expand the remit of the ministerial code investigation into the actions of the First Minister.

At this time, James Hamilton QC is charged with the investigation only of the meetings that were held between the First Minister and Mr Salmond that were connected to the complaints against him and the Government investigation of the same. However, significant and detailed evidence has been passed to our inquiry that casts doubt on the First Minister’s version of events. For legal reasons, the evidence cannot yet be published, but I know that I speak for colleagues when I say that, when we saw it, we recognised the immediate need for the ministerial code referral to be expanded to examine whether Nicola Sturgeon knowingly misled the Parliament under the terms of section 1C. Despite what the First Minister told Oliver Mundell this past week, this is a quasi-judicial process and the only body that can expand its remit is the Government itself, so I ask it to do that today.

The Liberal Democrats will support the motion. As a member of the inquiry, I have been frustrated by the grey wall of silence that we have encountered from the civil service in respect of nearly every aspect of our inquiry, and many answers will flow from the legal advice. The Government has clung so hard to legal professional privilege during our deliberations that the inescapable conclusion of any dispassionate observer must be that there is some reason why it does not want us to see the advice.

The judicial review was launched to settle the legality of the complaint-handling process, but it was not the only means of doing so. Mr Salmond offered arbitration several times, to adjudicate not the complaints but how the Government had handled them. There was obviously a clear advantage for the former First Minister in the privacy of arbitration—but so, too, for the complainers, and, for me, that is what the issue is all about. I credit Jackie Baillie for an excellent speech about why we should always remember the complainers who are at the heart of the investigation.

Judicial review is a winner-takes-all event, and one of the consequences of the judicial review is that the original complaints will probably never see the light of day again or receive a fair hearing under any process that is used by the Scottish Government. With arbitration, the complainers would have had a fighting chance of starting again and having their complaints heard properly from the beginning, without the public intrigue that the judicial review brought with it. Without the legal advice, we will never understand why the Government took the decision that it did.

The First Minister’s evidence suggests that the Government had been aware of the risk of judicial review since the spring of 2018. As we heard from Murdo Fraser, Mr Salmond had received advice from senior counsel suggesting that his case was very strong—a slam dunk. Therefore, it is hard to imagine that the Government did not also seek legal advice from the outset.

Our committee is charged with understanding with whom the responsibility for the failure ultimately rests. If, at some point, the Government was offered the opinion of senior counsel that the probability of victory was vanishingly small, why on earth did it proceed? It would have been much easier just to set fire to £500,000 on the front step of St Andrew’s house and leave the women at the heart of the matter utterly exposed. The Parliament needs answers, and those answers lie, in part, in the publication of the Government’s legal advice.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23218, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on the Scottish Government’s handling of harassment complaints. 14:53
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, this afternoon the Scottish Conservatives are dividing our debating time into two parts. Shortly, my colleague Donald Cameron will lead a ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Scots law provides that any person who seeks legal advice has the benefit of confidential communications with their lawyer. That is an important and well-est...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
If Mr Johnson will forgive me, I need to make progress. I have a lot of ground to cover. It is advice that informs that decision. It is the decision itself ...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
If Mr Mundell will allow me to finish the quote, I will give way to him. The Lord Advocate said: “Its waiver is exceptionally rare, and it happens against ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Does the Deputy First Minister honestly think that in this case, the circumstances are “routine”? Does he not think that it is exactly the sort of exception ...
John Swinney SNP
If Mr Mundell looks at examples of where the Government has waived legal professional privilege, he will see that they have been major issues of public polic...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
No—I am answering the member’s intervention. The point that the Lord Advocate made in the quote that I read out is that it is particularly relevant in a sit...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
I have to make further progress, I am afraid. The Government is frequently involved in litigation and decision making as part of normal good government. As ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I begin by quoting the words of the First Minister in the chamber on 17 January 2019, because it is worth reminding members of what she said. She stated: “T...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
On 6 February 2019, Parliament voted to establish a committee to inquire into the Scottish Government’s handling of harassment complaints in the light of all...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in support of the Conservative motion. I will come to the substance of the legal advice in a moment. Before I do, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We do not have a lot of time for the debate, so I urge members to keep their remarks to the four minutes that they have been allocated. 15:21
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
On 8 January 2019, Lord Pentland announced that the Scottish Government had conceded the former First Minister Alex Salmond’s petition for judicial review on...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
The motion asks Parliament to call “on the Scottish Government to publish all the legal advice it received regarding” a judicial review. In my speech I wil...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
This is an important debate because, undoubtedly, the circumstances surrounding it are some of the most troubling issues that we have dealt with since devolu...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
In this short debate of one hour and 10 minutes—the Tories have opted to use only half of their Opposition time for it—I wish to focus on the issue of legal ...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I very much welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. It is right that responding to the Covid-19 pandemic has been at the forefront of our ...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
For me, today has been a tale of two Parliaments. The first, this morning, was a meeting of the COVID-19 Committee, on which I serve, in which we scrutinised...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 15:46
Jackie Baillie Lab
The debate has been short but illuminating. The Opposition parties across the chamber are of one mind: they believe that the Scottish Government should provi...
John Swinney SNP
Jackie Baillie said that she would not rehearse the business of the committee and the substance of the inquiry. Some members have raised elements of the subs...
Oliver Mundell Con
Does Mr Swinney not recognise that the argument that he is making makes it even more compelling that the judicial review legal advice, which can be published...
John Swinney SNP
I am coming on to that point, which is about the material that the committee already has. The Government has already provided the committee with the pleading...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I will try another way of approaching the issue. I understand that Mr Swinney is not going to release the legal advice, but given the decisions that the Gove...
John Swinney SNP
I remind Alex Cole-Hamilton what I said at the outset: I will not get into the substance of any aspect of the processes in question, because it is not approp...