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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 28 October 2020

28 Oct 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Energy Inquiry

Dealing with the energy quadrilemma in four minutes seems to be a real gallop, so I will try to focus on one area, to which Graham Simpson alluded. I am a recent convert to being an EV driver. I have recently gone from being a petrolhead to whatever the new terminology is—nobody has yet told me, but I am looking forward to it being dubbed by the younger generation.

I am very keen that we move to EVs, not least because I have discovered all their merits. However, I have also discovered some of the problems that come with them. What has become clear is that we need a joined-up approach, with a consistent national framework. The reports by the RSE and the committee are great at identifying some of those things. I want to gallop through a few of them.

How we deliver the framework is probably one of the biggest issues. Will it be private, public or a hybrid? Who is co-ordinating it and how will it come together? Who should pay for installation and who is responsible for the maintenance? The Royal Society noted that we need to amend the powers that councils have, especially where planning is concerned. Lesley Deans, from Clackmannanshire Council, highlighted the issues well, particularly those regarding flatted or private developments. Planning requirements already cover parking and other standards. Now we should be considering making charging points a requirement for private developers, otherwise nobody in cities will be able to drive EVs.

Let us face it: if we do not do it, the risk is that ridiculous situations will arise, with people stringing charging leads down communal stairs or out of windows. I have to say that I am a person who has plugged in my car through somebody’s window—that is not where we want to go.

We also need better data gathering. Ms Deans told the committee that she did not know how many EVs were in her local authority area. Instead, she bases her estimates of usage on information from residents who contact her directly. There is no centrally available data to help decision makers with their choices. Ms Deans told us that the situation is further complicated in a small local authority area such as Clackmannanshire by trying to work out whether EV drivers from other areas are using the charging points in that area. I was certainly one of those drivers; before I had my charging point installed at home, I drove into Edinburgh to charge up most days. For the first six weeks that I drove my electric vehicle, I never paid for any energy. It was free everywhere that I went. I am not recommending that, but it is something that we need to consider.

It is a shaky foundation on which to try to drive forward a non-combustion-engine future. It requires people like us to make the transition—there are quite a few of us in the Parliament who are already doing that, and I have friends who are too. However, a lot of people tell me that they are worried about whether and how they will be able to charge, and whether it will be reliable. We need to get the foundation right if we are going to get everybody converted.

There is also the matter of local authority finances. Obviously, our councils were struggling before Covid; now, with the pandemic, things are even worse for a lot of local authorities. They are finding that upkeep is costing them huge sums and that charging points that are currently free to use with the council picking up the tab are not sustainable. We need an appropriate sustainable model, otherwise questions will start to arise from people who are not benefiting.

If a private developer installs a charging point as a result of planning requirements, who will pay for its upkeep? Will that fall to the residents, the council or the private developer?

Councils do not require funding just for upkeep, of course. As part of the net zero 2045 strategy, local authorities will be changing their fleets to environmentally friendly vehicles. The roll-out of hydrogen-powered refuse trucks in Glasgow, for example, required £6.3 million of funding. That was for just one arm of Glasgow’s council vehicle fleet. A lot of investment is due.

The evidence that was presented to the committee on the subject of maintenance pointed out that charging points have only a 10-year lifespan. That means that, in theory, some charging points will have to be replaced twice before we hit 2045. The funding from Transport Scotland covers warranty and maintenance agreements, but it does not seem to cover replacements, and warranties on charging points last for only four years. Councils are already banking money for future replacements. Is that the best way to go about it?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before we start, I should say that there is absolutely no time in hand, so members must not overrun their timings for their speeches—I am sorry. The next it...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
We have all faced a dilemma before, and at times we may even have been tested by a trilemma, but how many of us have had to contend with a quadrilemma? That ...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention, and I will keep it brief. This is just to correct the record: the Scottish energy advisory board has ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
I am delighted to hear that, and I stand corrected, if what I have said is incorrect. It was two years ago that the committee made the case for an “indepen...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to participate in today’s debate and to discuss the committee’s inquiry into energy policy in Scotland in more detail....
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I direct members to my entry in the register of members’ interests regarding renewable energy and energy efficiency. Although members across the chamber wil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for keeping to your time. 16:23
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee’s energy inquiry is based on the Royal Society of Edinburgh’s “Scotland’s Energy Future” report. The committee al...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rhoda Grant Lab
I think that I—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was about to intervene, myself. Please conclude, Ms Grant.
Rhoda Grant Lab
It seems that we are unable to harness our natural resources for a just transition. I welcome the committee’s inquiry but recognise that there is much to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open for the Scottish Green Party. You have four minutes. 16:27
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I welcome the committee’s findings. I thank the clerks for their work, and all those who gave evidence. Energy is a bit of a wicked policy area as it involv...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I start by acknowledging that I am in receipt of feed-in tariff payments and renewable heat incentive scheme payments. I warmly welcome the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. I ask members to keep to time, please. The speeches in the open debate should all be four minutes long. 16:36
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I start by reminding Liam McArthur that some ministers Inaudible. bad weather, especially snow. However, to move to the subject in hand, I join others in th...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Gordon Lindhurst on making what was probably the most entertaining contribution that I have ever heard him make in this chamber. I also congra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was trying to be subtle, Mr Simpson; you did not have to mention it. 16:44
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
As others have observed, the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee mentioned in its report the need to be honest with the public about the changes that peo...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This is a valuable debate, in which we can all learn from each other about local energy experiences, successes and challenges. I commend the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Can I ask you to wind up, please?
Claudia Beamish Lab
I will do. A national energy company could take on the energy quadrilemma with vigour and could be a key part of our climate future—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ms Beamish, you are a star, but that is not winding up. I am just going to move on. Thank you very much. 16:52
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the important work that has been done by the committee in conducting a health check on Scotland’s energy policies. It is particularly encouraging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That, Ms Beamish, is how to keep to your time. 16:56
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Dealing with the energy quadrilemma in four minutes seems to be a real gallop, so I will try to focus on one area, to which Graham Simpson alluded. I am a re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will have to pull the plug on you. I am sorry.
Michelle Ballantyne Con
So my talk is short. I am enthusiastic, but the minister must look at some of those points.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. To avoid curtailing the debate, I am minded to accept a motion without notice to move decision time to 5.30. I invite the business manager, Graem...