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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 28 October 2020

28 Oct 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Energy Inquiry

I welcome the committee’s findings. I thank the clerks for their work, and all those who gave evidence.

Energy is a bit of a wicked policy area as it involves geopolitical, environmental and economic issues; legacy infrastructure; new technology; and, particularly in the Scottish context, an unsatisfactory mix of devolved and reserved powers.

The Royal Society of Edinburgh has already been cited; its report was a very helpful springboard, as the convener said. It highlights how interconnected this area of policy is to others such as transport, housing and climate. In his opening remarks, the convener mentioned Professor Little’s comment that it also requires a whole-systems approach.

I regret that we do not have more time to debate such a vital topic, but the inquiry revealed that some excellent work is happening on the ground. The committee visited the Alexander Dennis bus factory in Falkirk, and had a very inspiring visit to Orkney to look at the smart grid ReFLEX project, which I am sure Liam McArthur will say more about.

I want to focus on a few of the committee’s key findings. The first that struck me was the RSE’s recommendation of a reduction in energy consumption. We know that that is possible through modal shifts, and we also know that it is possible to build houses that consume no net energy. The RSE report makes it clear that that is the most effective way of tackling the quadrilemma.

The committee also makes the case for a national body to co-ordinate action on such things as decarbonisation, resilience, infrastructure and behaviour. I think that that will be a key issue, which the minister has already said something about in relation to his forward plans.

Electric vehicles was the second area that the committee was interested in. As an owner of an electric vehicle, I have a personal as well as a political interest in the subject. There is a growing number of such vehicles in Scotland. However, to tackle climate breakdown, we must push for them to be the default choice as soon as possible. As we discovered in Orkney, electric vehicles also play a critical role in smart grids as storage available to balance supply and demand in local grids. Modern technology exists to do that automatically, with automatic markets where consumers can buy and sell electricity.

As Mr Lindhurst was talking about Tacitus, I was observing on my smartphone a member of my family driving into Edinburgh. Electric vehicles, being electric and having computers at their heart, are at the core of the autonomy movement. Indeed, in Beijing, electric vehicles speak to traffic lights and traffic lights speak to electric vehicles to work out when it is best to let traffic through. Beijing also has systems that can prioritise public transport. It is therefore about more than just the energy question.

We heard from a number of witnesses that the EV charging network here remains something of a lottery. Even the new Electric A9 chargers are unreliable. I think that the minister said that they were world leading, but I used one recently that delivered two seconds of electricity before cutting out and displaying an error message, and such incidents are far too common.

The final element of the inquiry was local energy systems. It is regrettable, as others have said, that so much of Scotland’s renewable generation is controlled not by local co-operatives and businesses but by large corporations, including state-owned corporations of foreign Governments, such as Vattenfall from Sweden. For all that we like to compare ourselves with similar-sized European countries such as Denmark, the minister will know that the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill is a reminder—certainly in my opinion—of how far we have to travel. For example, Denmark’s district heating schemes are the responsibility of the municipalities, which also own most of the pipe network, with consumer co-operatives owning the rest. In addition, all suppliers of heat must, by law, operate on a not-for-profit basis. In contrast, the proposed arrangements in Scotland exclude local authorities and are designed to attract investment from large corporates, and there is no not-for-profit requirement. What is normal in Denmark should be normal here.

The brief inquiry generated a lot of fascinating evidence and there is broad consensus among experts about how to proceed, but we have a long way to go before we have a properly integrated, long-term energy policy in place.

16:32  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before we start, I should say that there is absolutely no time in hand, so members must not overrun their timings for their speeches—I am sorry. The next it...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
We have all faced a dilemma before, and at times we may even have been tested by a trilemma, but how many of us have had to contend with a quadrilemma? That ...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention, and I will keep it brief. This is just to correct the record: the Scottish energy advisory board has ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
I am delighted to hear that, and I stand corrected, if what I have said is incorrect. It was two years ago that the committee made the case for an “indepen...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to participate in today’s debate and to discuss the committee’s inquiry into energy policy in Scotland in more detail....
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I direct members to my entry in the register of members’ interests regarding renewable energy and energy efficiency. Although members across the chamber wil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for keeping to your time. 16:23
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee’s energy inquiry is based on the Royal Society of Edinburgh’s “Scotland’s Energy Future” report. The committee al...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rhoda Grant Lab
I think that I—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was about to intervene, myself. Please conclude, Ms Grant.
Rhoda Grant Lab
It seems that we are unable to harness our natural resources for a just transition. I welcome the committee’s inquiry but recognise that there is much to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open for the Scottish Green Party. You have four minutes. 16:27
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I welcome the committee’s findings. I thank the clerks for their work, and all those who gave evidence. Energy is a bit of a wicked policy area as it involv...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I start by acknowledging that I am in receipt of feed-in tariff payments and renewable heat incentive scheme payments. I warmly welcome the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. I ask members to keep to time, please. The speeches in the open debate should all be four minutes long. 16:36
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I start by reminding Liam McArthur that some ministers Inaudible. bad weather, especially snow. However, to move to the subject in hand, I join others in th...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Gordon Lindhurst on making what was probably the most entertaining contribution that I have ever heard him make in this chamber. I also congra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was trying to be subtle, Mr Simpson; you did not have to mention it. 16:44
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
As others have observed, the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee mentioned in its report the need to be honest with the public about the changes that peo...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This is a valuable debate, in which we can all learn from each other about local energy experiences, successes and challenges. I commend the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Can I ask you to wind up, please?
Claudia Beamish Lab
I will do. A national energy company could take on the energy quadrilemma with vigour and could be a key part of our climate future—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ms Beamish, you are a star, but that is not winding up. I am just going to move on. Thank you very much. 16:52
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the important work that has been done by the committee in conducting a health check on Scotland’s energy policies. It is particularly encouraging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That, Ms Beamish, is how to keep to your time. 16:56
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Dealing with the energy quadrilemma in four minutes seems to be a real gallop, so I will try to focus on one area, to which Graham Simpson alluded. I am a re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will have to pull the plug on you. I am sorry.
Michelle Ballantyne Con
So my talk is short. I am enthusiastic, but the minister must look at some of those points.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. To avoid curtailing the debate, I am minded to accept a motion without notice to move decision time to 5.30. I invite the business manager, Graem...