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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 28 October 2020

28 Oct 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Energy Inquiry

I am delighted to hear that, and I stand corrected, if what I have said is incorrect.

It was two years ago that the committee made the case for an

“independent body, one that can provide oversight, continuity and a long-term framework … positioned at the heart of energy policy and market transition, strategic in its long-term thinking and planning while prepared and flexible enough to react to change as it happens.”

I am grateful to the minister for his intervention, if it indicates that that is what the Government is seeking to move towards.

The minister may not have read this quote from P G Wodehouse, who said:

“Routine is the death to heroism.”

That is perhaps what the committee would like us to avoid in our approach to this matter.

Strategic oversight is something that we also need more of when it comes to EVs. The Scottish Government is committed to phasing out new petrol and diesel cars by 2032, and it is rumoured that the United Kingdom Government will bring forward a ban to 2030. We asked how that transition will be nationally co-ordinated, strategically planned and supported by reliable infrastructure. We put that point to the Scottish Government and to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities.

We heard of considerable variation at local level in the quality of provision. Dundee won praise—Edinburgh, not so much. Councils are doing their best with the resources that they have, but staff leading on infrastructure planning often do so as an add-on to their day job.

COSLA’s response to our inquiry came as little surprise. COSLA stated,

“we wholeheartedly recognise the importance and intent”

of one of the committee’s recommendations: that examples of innovation and best practice be collected from around the country. I could pick out a few other phrases: “progressive mainstreaming”, “sustained collaboration”, “critical junctures” and “intrinsically multi-agency”—we get the idea.

Local energy was the third and final strand of our report, and that brings us on to public awareness and community engagement, which was a recurring theme of the inquiry. Some of our witnesses found the scorecard to be less than impressive. The RSE underlines the need to develop policy that is acceptable to the public and that is sustainable and just, and to be up front about the choices available, about what is achievable and about the changes that have to happen. Otherwise, what chance do we have of changing our habits—be it the kind of car we drive or how we heat our home?

The refrain is that we need to start doing things with people, not to people, and that we need to move beyond a top-down approach. No longer is it enough simply to focus on technocratic and engineering solutions; we should view the broader policy agenda alongside “local happenstance”, as it has been called. Whether it involves ground-source heating for homes near local parks, flooded coal mines or brownfield sites, or solar energy for new builds, what works for one community may not work for another.

Two of my committee colleagues visited the ReFLEX project in Orkney, and they saw for themselves what is happening to connect electricity, transport and heat—the aim being not only to deliver affordable locally generated energy and to decarbonise the islands by 2030 but to export the model elsewhere in Scotland, the UK and beyond.

The Committee on Climate Change advises the Scottish Government on green recovery. One of its six principles is to lead a shift towards positive long-term behaviours, which it sees as

“an opportunity to embed new social norms, especially for travel.”

It suggests that the Scottish Government should lead the way with its own work, with public communications and infrastructure for example.

According to Tacitus—I refer to the ancient Roman historian with whom all members are familiar, not to the cat of the same name, who lives in Kirkliston—

“good habits are here more effectual than good laws elsewhere.”

The context was public virtue in the first century, but the point still stands. If we can change how we think about energy, we can change how we consume it. Smart meters are not so smart if they teach us only that the kettle uses a lot of electricity but not the necessity of heating our home better.

The fourth aspect of the quadrilemma—public acceptability—becomes ever more critical.

I now have a quadrilemma in the sense that I am over my time and the Presiding Officer is indicating that I should finish up, which I shall do at this point. I look forward to hearing what the minister has to say on the matter when he rises to speak.

I move,

That the Parliament notes the findings set out in the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee's Energy Inquiry, which were published on 8 July 2020.—[Gordon Lindhurst]

16:11  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before we start, I should say that there is absolutely no time in hand, so members must not overrun their timings for their speeches—I am sorry. The next it...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
We have all faced a dilemma before, and at times we may even have been tested by a trilemma, but how many of us have had to contend with a quadrilemma? That ...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention, and I will keep it brief. This is just to correct the record: the Scottish energy advisory board has ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
I am delighted to hear that, and I stand corrected, if what I have said is incorrect. It was two years ago that the committee made the case for an “indepen...
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to participate in today’s debate and to discuss the committee’s inquiry into energy policy in Scotland in more detail....
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I direct members to my entry in the register of members’ interests regarding renewable energy and energy efficiency. Although members across the chamber wil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for keeping to your time. 16:23
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee’s energy inquiry is based on the Royal Society of Edinburgh’s “Scotland’s Energy Future” report. The committee al...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rhoda Grant Lab
I think that I—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was about to intervene, myself. Please conclude, Ms Grant.
Rhoda Grant Lab
It seems that we are unable to harness our natural resources for a just transition. I welcome the committee’s inquiry but recognise that there is much to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open for the Scottish Green Party. You have four minutes. 16:27
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I welcome the committee’s findings. I thank the clerks for their work, and all those who gave evidence. Energy is a bit of a wicked policy area as it involv...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I start by acknowledging that I am in receipt of feed-in tariff payments and renewable heat incentive scheme payments. I warmly welcome the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. I ask members to keep to time, please. The speeches in the open debate should all be four minutes long. 16:36
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I start by reminding Liam McArthur that some ministers Inaudible. bad weather, especially snow. However, to move to the subject in hand, I join others in th...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Gordon Lindhurst on making what was probably the most entertaining contribution that I have ever heard him make in this chamber. I also congra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I was trying to be subtle, Mr Simpson; you did not have to mention it. 16:44
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
As others have observed, the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee mentioned in its report the need to be honest with the public about the changes that peo...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This is a valuable debate, in which we can all learn from each other about local energy experiences, successes and challenges. I commend the Economy, Energy ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Can I ask you to wind up, please?
Claudia Beamish Lab
I will do. A national energy company could take on the energy quadrilemma with vigour and could be a key part of our climate future—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ms Beamish, you are a star, but that is not winding up. I am just going to move on. Thank you very much. 16:52
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the important work that has been done by the committee in conducting a health check on Scotland’s energy policies. It is particularly encouraging t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That, Ms Beamish, is how to keep to your time. 16:56
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Dealing with the energy quadrilemma in four minutes seems to be a real gallop, so I will try to focus on one area, to which Graham Simpson alluded. I am a re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will have to pull the plug on you. I am sorry.
Michelle Ballantyne Con
So my talk is short. I am enthusiastic, but the minister must look at some of those points.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. To avoid curtailing the debate, I am minded to accept a motion without notice to move decision time to 5.30. I invite the business manager, Graem...