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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 30 September 2020

30 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Family Care Givers
Cameron, Donald Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I acknowledge that those were the reasons that were given, but the cabinet secretary can be under no illusions: the delay represents more heartache and distress for the affected families who lost loved ones in care homes. We need to know the full number of Covid-19 positive patients who entered care homes, and Neil Findlay is right: we need to know when the First Minister and the cabinet secretary first learned that that was happening. We also need to know what guidance, if any, clinicians were following when the transfers were made. That is why our amendment repeats our call for an urgent public inquiry, so that families can get those urgent answers.

I would like to move on to other areas of the debate. We recognise the immense worry and concern of family care givers who have had limited or no contact with their loved ones, particularly those who have conditions such as Alzheimer’s and dementia. We acknowledge that some work has been done to ensure that care home residents can meet people outdoors, although that will clearly become less practical as winter approaches. I take at face value what the cabinet secretary has said, in both her amendment and her public statements, about the issue, and I do not doubt her sincerity for a moment. However, as Jason Leitch said to the COVID-19 Committee this morning, it is one of the most difficult issues that has to be addressed by any Government dealing with Covid-19 anywhere in the world.

I note what the cabinet secretary said about allowing one designated visitor to meet a resident indoors, but, from my inbox—I am sure that this is the same for many MSPs—I know that family members, in particular, are increasingly distressed about not being able to see their loved ones. For instance, I have read about people being separated by Perspex screens. It is heartbreaking to read some of those stories.

The care home relatives Scotland group has called for more access for relatives in care homes to improve people’s quality of life. Members may have seen the message from Mary Fowler, who is a 104-year-old care home resident who took to social media with an emotional plea to see her family. The existing restrictions made her feel like she was in prison. That is a stark example of the people who have made significant sacrifices and a reminder that we should keep looking for ways to safely return to some kind of normality for those who are most vulnerable.

Labour referred to the national care service in its motion. We welcome the review to investigate that, which was announced in the programme for government, and we await with great interest its findings in January. We believe that that review should happen first and that its conclusions should be digested before we come to a final view.

There are undoubtedly wider issues across the whole sector—in both the public and private sectors—and we must do all that we can to remedy them by working with care workers, care providers, residents in care and bodies such as Scottish Care and the Care Inspectorate.

It seems obvious that reform of some sort is coming. As things stand, we cannot support a blanket commitment to a national care service, as in Labour’s motion, but that should not be read as Conservative members being resistant to change in the sector.

In conclusion, we are sympathetic to much of the motion. We need an urgent inquiry, and we believe that the national care service review should be carried out before we come to a final view. I hope that other members support our amendment.

I move amendment S5M-22860.1, to leave out from “concludes that it is time” to “similar approach” and insert:

“welcomes the review into a National Care Service; acknowledges the very significant contribution of social care workers, both in general and in terms of the COVID-19 pandemic; shares the concerns of families calling for better care home visiting arrangements, given that limited or no contact with family caregivers is having a negative impact, not only on the health and wellbeing of care home residents, including those with Alzheimer’s disease and dementia, but also on children, young people and other adults affected by restrictions on their caregivers, and believes that this policy should be reviewed; calls for an urgent public inquiry into the unacceptable transfer of COVID-19-positive patients to care homes”.

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22860, in the name of Monica Lennon, on recognising the importance of family care givers. I invite membe...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to open, on behalf of Scottish Labour, this debate on recognising the importance of family care givers. I know that member...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
If you had had 13 minutes, I would have given you 13 minutes. I had better tell members how much time they have. I call Jeane Freeman to speak to and move a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
As members across the chamber well know, we are in the middle of a global pandemic. To give some context to what I am about to say, it is perhaps worth remin...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will do, in a moment. Given that, I hope that Mr Cameron will understand that I cannot support his call for a separate public inquiry into only one aspect...
Neil Findlay Lab
We know that a public inquiry will come, but the cabinet secretary has been asked on many occasions when she first knew that people were being discharged to ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
We were initially alerted to the situation by reports in the national press on what was happening south of the border. That was when we began to investigate ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful to Labour for bringing the issue to the chamber. There is much in its motion and in the Scottish Government’s amendment with which we agree in ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I am sure that Mr Cameron will appreciate that Public Health Scotland’s reason for not publishing at the end of September, as it and we had hoped, is that it...
Donald Cameron Con
I acknowledge that those were the reasons that were given, but the cabinet secretary can be under no illusions: the delay represents more heartache and distr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now have no time in hand, so members must absorb interventions. I am sorry. 15:56
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I thank our wonderful care staff, who have done incredible work in often extremely difficult conditions throughout the pandemic. They have been a source of c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, but you must conclude.
Alison Johnstone Green
I will conclude my remarks there.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am very sorry. I was trying to signal to you. I now call Alex Cole-Hamilton. Please watch the pen, Mr Cole-Hamilton, and I will not have to interrupt you....
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I will never ignore the pen, Presiding Officer. I thank Monica Lennon and the Labour Party for lodging this important motion. Monica Lennon and I attended a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members that, if you wish to speak, you must press your request-to-speak button. I call Anas Sarwar, to be followed by Angela Constance. 16:08
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the debate and all the contributions that have been made so far. I say, too, that it is important to acknowledge context. Covid has changed not jus...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP) SNP
I very much welcome the debate, because the pandemic and the national response have reminded us that, often in life, the hardest decisions are those that we ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can tell members that interrupting all these wonderful speeches is not a happy task, but I have to do it. 16:22
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Along with other members, I thank Monica Lennon and the Labour group for bringing the debate to the chamber. There is a consensual feel to the debate, and I ...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate, and I note the importance of 1 October as the international day of older persons. There will be a vast amount on which we will agree t...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
For me, the biggest tragedy of the Covid pandemic—an outrage, in fact, for which we must all account—was the treatment of older people, particularly in the e...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I am grateful to the member for taking an intervention because it allows me to clarify again for the record that there was no policy to issue do not resuscit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
Ms McNeill, you will get your time back.
Pauline McNeill Lab
Thank you. It is a really important point. I accept everything that the cabinet secretary says, but I spoke to doctors who believed that they got guidance f...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the international day for older persons, purely for personal reasons, because my younger brother is elderly. Many of the stories that we have hear...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
This is going to be a hard winter for families and their loved ones who live in care homes. Like many MSPs, I have been asked by a constituent to try to imag...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, because health and social care has long been my focus both in my time as a councillor and now in my time as...