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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 29 September 2020

29 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Complaints against MSPs (Committee Bill Proposal)
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Our role as MSPs is a privilege and we should aspire to a high standard of behaviour. Sadly, that is not always the case.

Neil Findlay pointed out the shocking statistics from the staff survey. What was even more shocking was that 45 per cent of perpetrators referred to in the results of that survey were MSPs. I was a member of the joint working group that was set up to deal with that desperate situation. The proposed bill comes from the recommendations of that working group.

It is clear that sexual harassment is based on an imbalance of power. The privilege of being an MSP bestows power on all MSPs, and abuse of that power is simply wrong. It is an abuse of our privilege—a privilege that was given to us by the Scottish people. I therefore welcome the consensus among all members that the change in legislation is necessary.

One of the most difficult issues that the joint working group looked at was the protection of MSP staff. They are directly employed by MSPs and have no right of appeal beyond their employers to the Parliament, to the Scottish Government or, indeed, to their party. Therefore, extending the remit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland to investigate such complaints adds to the protection for staff. It could also be a deterrent to MSPs who seek to abuse people in that vulnerable position.

Graeme Dey and Neil Findlay talked about extending that protection to Scottish Government and Parliament staff. I agree with that but, as it stands, Scottish Government and Parliament staff have a right to complain to their line manager and a right to have complaints about an MSP investigated beyond that MSP. An employer would normally investigate, and that might be the right way to do it for such members of staff, because the employer could also provide the support that is required for staff while the investigation continues. However, if an MSP were found guilty of harassing Scottish Government or Parliament staff, it would be right and proper for the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life to consider sanctions for that MSP.

I welcome the removal of the one-year cut-off for complaints of sexual harassment. That shows an understanding that the victim might be reluctant to come forward, because such behaviour might impact on someone’s self-esteem, there is an embarrassment attached and there is a huge fear for MSP staff about their employment. Added to that, our staff normally share our political affiliation, so there is a reluctance to call out an MSP if that could cause reputational damage to the party. I say to anybody who is a victim of such abuse that it is not them who is causing that damage; it is the person who is perpetrating the abuse. I ask them never to be silenced by someone who preys on their party loyalty while not displaying the same loyalty themselves.

We need to have zero tolerance for sexual harassment. The proposed change to the legislation works towards that. All our staff need to feel safe in their workplace. We are in a privileged position, and it is unacceptable for anyone to seek to abuse that privileged position. Therefore, it is right that protections are put in place to hold abusers to account.

15:37  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22213, in the name of Bill Kidd, on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
The committee’s proposal to introduce a committee bill in relation to sexual harassment complaints marks the culmination of work that was initiated by the Pa...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
On a point of clarification, would the historical approach apply not just to current, but to former, MSPs?
Bill Kidd SNP
I am just coming to that; I hope that this will explain it. It is important that I point out that the change will apply only to complaints of sexual harassm...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I propose to keep my contribution to the debate relatively short, as I suspect other members will, too, because I doubt whether there is much, if anything, t...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Everyone who works in the Parliament has an interest in ensuring that the public can have confidence that we operate with a high level of integrity and propr...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The proposed bill follows on from concerns that have been raised about sexual harassment, and about such behaviour in the Parliament. The survey that was cir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Gosh, everyone is paying attention to the need for brevity today; I am quite stunned. There seems to be some confusion, with some members having pressed the...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
This proposed committee bill on complaints against MSPs, which will amend the Scottish Parliamentary Standards Commissioner Act 2002, is an important part of...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The Scottish Parliament should be a safe and pleasant environment, where staff feel comfortable in their place of work and confident in reporting harassment ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That was the final contribution to the open debate, so we move to the closing speeches. For members’ information, the stage 3 debate may start at about 10 to...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Our role as MSPs is a privilege and we should aspire to a high standard of behaviour. Sadly, that is not always the case. Neil Findlay pointed out the shock...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to have the opportunity to be involved in this important debate. Sexual harassment and inappropriate conduct in all its forms are completely u...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Graeme Dey. You have five minutes. 15:41
Graeme Dey SNP
I will take a lot less time than that, Presiding Officer. I kept my opening speech short because I do not think that there is anything at all that divides us...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Bill Kidd to wind-up the debate on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. You can have as long as you like, Mr Kidd. L...
Bill Kidd SNP
I will aim to be popular and not take too long. I will cover two issues quickly before I get into the meat of my speech. In response to Mike Rumbles, I say ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That concludes the debate on complaints against MSPs—amendment of the Scottish Parliamentary Standards Commissioner Act 2002. We move to the next item of bu...