Committee
Public Petitions Committee 24 September 2020
24 Sep 2020 · S5 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Paramedic Students (NHS Bursary) (PE1819)
Rory Maclean
Watch on SPTV
The programme is three years long. Like most programmes in Scotland, the programme is slightly unusual this year, because of the Covid pandemic. Teaching in the first part of the year will be online, through theoretical learning. As we go through the course, student paramedics are expected to get closer and closer to being independent paramedics. At the end of our first year, we should be doing 75 per cent of the job of a paramedic, under minimal supervision; by the end of our second year, we should be doing 80 per cent of the job, under almost no supervision; and we would, by the end of the third year, obviously be expected to practise fully as a paramedic. The problem is that we are on placement for sometimes 16 to 20 weeks. During those placements, we shadow paramedics who work shifts. The shifts are 12 hours long, and we might do them for three or four days in a row, which means that we would be unable to work during that week. It would be very unreasonable to expect a student paramedic to do a 12-hour shift, go to another job, sleep and then go back to work. I wish that there were that many hours in the day, but there are not. The problem is that the struggle comes primarily in the second and third years, and in the latter half of the first year of the degree. Unlike normal students, many student paramedics do not work over summer; we are unable to do so because we are on placement. A high number of the hours for which we are on placement are unsociable hours, which means that we cannot gain regular employment. To answer the question, the largest problems will happen when students are on placement. Placements can sometimes be with the Ambulance Service, but we also have placements on maternity and mental health wards and in care homes. Paramedics are not just running around on the streets. We have a wide variety of skills that take a long time to learn. We need the bursary so that we can fully commit ourselves to the role. 09:45
In the same item of business
The Convener (Johann Lamont)
Lab
Welcome, everyone, to the 14th meeting in 2020 of the Public Petitions Committee. The meeting is being held virtually. The first item on our agenda is consi...
Rory Maclean
Thank you. It is a pleasure to appear in front of the committee virtually. I am standing in for Rachel Taylor, who is, unfortunately, unable to make it to th...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you for that—we very much appreciate your being here today, even if it is a virtual appearance. Before I ask a substantive question, I would like you t...
Rory Maclean
We do not have the exact numbers at the moment. The numbers that we have been working with for our financial projections are based on current student numbers...
The Convener
Lab
As the petition highlights, and as you say in your statement, nursing and midwifery students can access a bursary that, from this academic year, is worth £10...
Rory Maclean
Through the petition, we are seeking from the Scottish Government the same level of commitment as is given to nursing and midwifery students. The reason why ...
The Convener
Lab
I am trying to understand why the Scottish Government has not simply recognised that parity. Given the current funding that is available, is there a percepti...
Rory Maclean
It is hard to say. I recognise that nurses and midwives are incredibly valuable, and they definitely deserve their bursary. We have a lot of time for them an...
The Convener
Lab
That is very helpful.
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Good morning. I thank Mr Maclean for appearing before us today. Although I appreciate that the bachelor of science in paramedic science course starts this mo...
Rory Maclean
The programme is three years long. Like most programmes in Scotland, the programme is slightly unusual this year, because of the Covid pandemic. Teaching in ...
Maurice Corry
Con
I have a supplementary question. My daughter has just gone through an occupational therapy degree at Glasgow Caledonian University, so I am aware of the hour...
Rory Maclean
Yes, that is definitely correct. I could not have put it better, myself. We recently conducted a report on a survey of student paramedics. Many said that the...
Maurice Corry
Con
Thank you.
Gail Ross (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you for joining us. You made a compelling opening argument. We have had a written submission from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport, who has s...
Rory Maclean
Thank you. We have written to the cabinet secretary a couple of times to tell her what we would like, so I thank you for presenting me with the opportunity t...
Gail Ross
SNP
Your main message to the cabinet secretary is not to wait for the review, because we do not know what the timescale for that will be. You want action now.
Rory Maclean
Yes, that is exactly it. We need action now to stop student paramedics living on the poverty line.
Gail Ross
SNP
Okay; thank you.
Rory Maclean
Thank you.
Tom Mason (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
In her written submission, the cabinet secretary states that the nursing and midwifery bursary was maintained on the grounds of workforce planning, to ensure...
Rory Maclean
Thank you for that question. We have concerns about that as well. There was a report in The Times in, I think, January 2020—it has been a strange year, so fo...
Tom Mason
Con
Is the number of places available on the BSc paramedic science courses around the country sufficient to ensure a steady flow of new recruits into the profess...
Rory Maclean
I cannot comment on that, because I do not have a good enough understanding of the workflow programming for the Ambulance Service. However, no matter what th...
Tom Mason
Con
You have compared paramedics with nurses and midwives. How does it sit with other professions such as physiotherapists, occupational therapists and other pro...
Rory Maclean
I am sorry, but how does what sit with them?
Tom Mason
Con
At the moment, all the examples that you are giving are comparing with nurses and midwives. How do paramedics compare with physiotherapists, occupational the...
Rory Maclean
I see what you mean. The reason why we make a comparison with nurses and midwives is that they currently receive a bursary. One reason why that bursary was ...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
SNP
Given the challenges that have been outlined to the committee, what impact would the introduction of a bursary have on students who are currently taking the ...
Rory Maclean
It would have a massively positive impact if the bursary were to be introduced. I outlined previously, in answer to Gail Ross, the emotional reasons why we w...