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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 September 2020

24 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

It goes without question that no one should face violent abuse or untoward behaviour at their place of work. Sadly, however, violence against shop workers is far too common. I pay tribute to Daniel Johnson and recognise all the work that he has put in to get the bill to this stage.

Daniel Johnson said that

“unions and employers are of one view”,

and that the pandemic has increased incidents—in particular, due to the enforcement of safety measures. That is deeply concerning. Ash Denham highlighted that many perpetrators were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and that, commonly, when identification was being checked, such behaviours began to come to the surface. Research that was carried out by the Scottish Retail Consortium estimated that 10 attacks are made on retail workers in Scotland every single day. Liam McArthur highlighted that every corner of Scotland has problems, even his native Orkney.

When I worked in a shop in Dundee, I would face threats and abuse on a regular basis. Liam Kerr spoke about his similar experiences when he was a retail worker. The Scottish Grocers Federation found that 99 per cent of the workers whom it surveyed had experienced violence—a point that was highlighted by Alison Harris, who said that it is just not right.

It is not only the physical violence that causes harm. Many workers suffer mental health issues as a result of attacks, and that is not to mention the fear that their families, friends and colleagues might feel. It has therefore been encouraging to hear members affirming their commitment to this simple commonsense proposal in today’s debate: shop workers have the right to work in a safe environment, free from harm and the fear of harm.

Jackie Baillie spoke about her anger that so many workers are facing abuse just for doing their jobs. She also said that she had not been asked for ID for a number of years. I have to tell her that if she walked into a shop that I was working in, I would, without hesitation, ask for identification. [Laughter.]

Let us remember the valuable contribution that shop workers make to our communities, which has been apparent to everyone these past months. Shop workers have been essential in keeping the country fed, maintaining access to medications and ensuring that life can go on as normally as possible. They have taken on new duties—for example, in monitoring health and social distancing regulations—on top of existing legal obligations, such as to do with age-related sales.

Shop workers being asked to carry out those duties creates potential flashpoints. I therefore believe that, because the law places that burden on shop workers, it also has a duty to protect them. Annabelle Ewing highlighted that point in her speech, and Michelle Ballantyne cited evidence from the Co-operative Group, saying that workers feel that no one cares. Today, Parliament has shown that we do care.

Speaking on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, Gordon Lindhurst highlighted concerns regarding the scope of, and definitions in, the bill, but acknowledged the need for action in this area. Andy Wightman described the bill as “a worthy and welcome” introduction. As he will, we will support the general principles.

It is worth noting that both the Scottish Retail Consortium and the Association of Convenience Stores cite sentencing as a common concern; therefore, we must do more to strengthen sentences. Just as there is as scope to go further, we must also ensure that the bill gets the basics right. Arguably, none is more important than encouraging people to report attacks. The FSB’s research has shown that just one in 10 firms does so. We must also reflect on where other issues might arise. For example, “obstruction and hindering” have already been removed due to concerns about an overlap with existing offences.

Stage 2 will be an opportunity to explore and discuss the issues in more detail. I look forward to doing so.

16:54  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-22226, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goo...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
This is quite a moment for me. Rising to speak in favour of my own bill brings with it a real sense of responsibility. I pay tribute to the various organisa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I agree with all that the member has said so far. How does he feel about other workers who are not retail workers? Should they, too, be protected?
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a useful intervention. Unfortunately, I am a solitary member and this is a member’s bill. There is a case for looking at the protection that all publ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Gordon Lindhurst will open the debate on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. 15:37
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
As the saying goes, the customer is always right—it was the founders of Selfridges and the Ritz hotel who first popularised the phrase. Variations on the the...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
I begin by recognising the important role that retail workers play in our local communities and the wider Scottish economy. During the Covid-19 outbreak, the...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
What is the minister’s view on the representation of the Association of Convenience Stores that the maximum penalty in the bill might not be strong enough?
Ash Denham SNP
The maximum penalty in the bill would be up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to £10,000. We imagine that most offences will be captured under the bi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to contribute to this stage 1 debate on the bill. Daniel Johnson knows that I am sympathetic to what he is trying to achieve, as we have discuss...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest as a member of USDAW and the GMB, which both represent retail workers. I am delighted to be able to speak in favour of the bill at sta...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, welcome the bill, and commend Daniel Johnson for his work to introduce it. The Scottish Greens support the general principles of the bill and will vo...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Presiding Officer, I offer my apologies—to you, to the Presiding Officer who was then in the chair, and to other members—that I was not here at the start of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of absolutely no more than four minutes, please. I do not want to delay decision time or cut out speakers. 16:12
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, I support the general principles of the bill. It is important that we have a full debate on the i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
If everybody takes an extra five seconds, that makes us late. I call Alison Harris. 16:16
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
That is a challenge—thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, am a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. Since Daniel Johnson introduced the bi...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
As others have done, I thank Daniel Johnson for navigating his member’s bill through stage 1. It is a robust bill, albeit that I know that some amendments ar...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests. I am a member of USDAW and Unite. I am delighted to support Daniel Johnson’s bill and congratulate...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for introducing his bill with the support of USDAW—the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers. It is on a matter that is impor...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Without doubt, the bill has a commendable purpose. As I was convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee during the stage 1 process, I would like ...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Daniel Johnson on and commend him for his hard work and absolute determination to introduce the bill and reach this stage. I also pay tr...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I have been a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee off and on. I am currently a substitute member, but I was not involved in the bill at all...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I join colleagues in congratulating Daniel Johnson on getting his bill to Parliament and this stage. It is clear that there are more discussion and negotiati...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It goes without question that no one should face violent abuse or untoward behaviour at their place of work. Sadly, however, violence against shop workers is...
Ash Denham SNP
I thank all members who have contributed to this debate on an important issue. It is clear that we all agree that the abuse of a retail worker is totally una...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Daniel Johnson to close the debate. You can take us up to decision time. 16:58
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will do so gladly. I begin by thanking everyone who has taken part in the debate. It has been encouraging to hear such a broad range of views and to have ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, Mr Johnson. I know that we have a half-empty chamber, but it is awfully noisy. Could members take care, please?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I know that those retail workers will be heartened to know that we take the issues that they face daily seriously. Before I go much further I would like t...