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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 September 2020

24 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I join colleagues in congratulating Daniel Johnson on getting his bill to Parliament and this stage. It is clear that there are more discussion and negotiation to be had, but Covid-19 has really brought to the fore how vital retail workers are to all of us—not just to our economy but to our day-to-day lives. I thank colleagues for raising that fact consistently throughout the debate.

I commend retail workers for their capacity to adapt to new circumstances and for their professional and warm approach to keeping us all going. It has not been easy for them. Earlier in the month, I visited Scotmid in Portobello and heard first hand from staff there about the challenges that they have had to deal with over the past few months, about how important it has been for them to make their customers feel safe, and about their role in supporting local residents.

As several colleagues have mentioned, the ACS sent us a briefing. It highlights the fact that 20 per cent of independent retailers have experienced violence. That is simply unacceptable. Even more worrying than that is that it highlighted that robberies and use of weapons are on the increase. That cannot be acceptable in Scotland today.

Many members have highlighted USDAW’s freedom from fear survey, which was carried out before the pandemic. It reported that more than six in 10 retail workers had experienced verbal abuse, that a third had been threatened by a customer, and that there were more than 15 assaults every day on Scotland’s shop workers. That is a shocking statistic. Although they have been designated key workers throughout the pandemic, retail workers have not stopped facing abuse for simply doing their day-to-day job. As Daniel Johnson highlighted, the level of abuse has doubled during the pandemic.

As several members have commented, retail workers are among the lowest-paid staff in our society, but they have significant responsibilities when it comes to enforcing the law. Several colleagues have mentioned that that has been one of the trigger points.

We have the chance to pass the bill through to the next parliamentary stage to drive real change, offer real protection to shop workers, and get the detailed provisions in the bill right.

One comment that I found interesting was about the low levels of reporting to the police of the abuse that retail workers face. It was highlighted that criminal prosecution depends on the employee and the employer reporting the case and that that simply does not happen often. That needs to change, and the bill needs to empower that change.

If enacted, the bill would make abusing retail workers a separate offence. That would not only protect retail workers; it would also raise awareness and encourage reporting. There has been an interesting debate about that this afternoon. With the increased provision of closed-circuit television in shops, we are better able to see evidence in order for prosecutions to take place. As almost every member has said, nobody should face abuse simply for doing their job, upholding the law, and serving customers. The bill will be key to ensuring that that becomes a reality.

The points that have been made about the importance of changing attitudes were powerful. Several colleagues mentioned that. We need cultural change and respect for retail workers, so public messaging is important. I hope that the minister will commit to that in her summing-up speech. There are things that the Scottish Government could do that would help to give that permission and set the bar higher.

Let us be clear: our shop workers urgently need the bill. I join colleagues in thanking USDAW for its fantastic campaigning, which has gone on for some time, and I thank all constituents throughout the country who have written to us to support the bill and help us to get to where we are today.

Let us support the bill and take a step to powerful legislation that will change people’s lives for the better.

16:49  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-22226, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goo...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
This is quite a moment for me. Rising to speak in favour of my own bill brings with it a real sense of responsibility. I pay tribute to the various organisa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I agree with all that the member has said so far. How does he feel about other workers who are not retail workers? Should they, too, be protected?
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a useful intervention. Unfortunately, I am a solitary member and this is a member’s bill. There is a case for looking at the protection that all publ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Gordon Lindhurst will open the debate on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. 15:37
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
As the saying goes, the customer is always right—it was the founders of Selfridges and the Ritz hotel who first popularised the phrase. Variations on the the...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
I begin by recognising the important role that retail workers play in our local communities and the wider Scottish economy. During the Covid-19 outbreak, the...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
What is the minister’s view on the representation of the Association of Convenience Stores that the maximum penalty in the bill might not be strong enough?
Ash Denham SNP
The maximum penalty in the bill would be up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to £10,000. We imagine that most offences will be captured under the bi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to contribute to this stage 1 debate on the bill. Daniel Johnson knows that I am sympathetic to what he is trying to achieve, as we have discuss...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest as a member of USDAW and the GMB, which both represent retail workers. I am delighted to be able to speak in favour of the bill at sta...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, welcome the bill, and commend Daniel Johnson for his work to introduce it. The Scottish Greens support the general principles of the bill and will vo...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Presiding Officer, I offer my apologies—to you, to the Presiding Officer who was then in the chair, and to other members—that I was not here at the start of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of absolutely no more than four minutes, please. I do not want to delay decision time or cut out speakers. 16:12
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, I support the general principles of the bill. It is important that we have a full debate on the i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
If everybody takes an extra five seconds, that makes us late. I call Alison Harris. 16:16
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
That is a challenge—thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, am a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. Since Daniel Johnson introduced the bi...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
As others have done, I thank Daniel Johnson for navigating his member’s bill through stage 1. It is a robust bill, albeit that I know that some amendments ar...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests. I am a member of USDAW and Unite. I am delighted to support Daniel Johnson’s bill and congratulate...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for introducing his bill with the support of USDAW—the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers. It is on a matter that is impor...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Without doubt, the bill has a commendable purpose. As I was convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee during the stage 1 process, I would like ...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Daniel Johnson on and commend him for his hard work and absolute determination to introduce the bill and reach this stage. I also pay tr...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I have been a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee off and on. I am currently a substitute member, but I was not involved in the bill at all...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I join colleagues in congratulating Daniel Johnson on getting his bill to Parliament and this stage. It is clear that there are more discussion and negotiati...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It goes without question that no one should face violent abuse or untoward behaviour at their place of work. Sadly, however, violence against shop workers is...
Ash Denham SNP
I thank all members who have contributed to this debate on an important issue. It is clear that we all agree that the abuse of a retail worker is totally una...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Daniel Johnson to close the debate. You can take us up to decision time. 16:58
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will do so gladly. I begin by thanking everyone who has taken part in the debate. It has been encouraging to hear such a broad range of views and to have ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, Mr Johnson. I know that we have a half-empty chamber, but it is awfully noisy. Could members take care, please?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I know that those retail workers will be heartened to know that we take the issues that they face daily seriously. Before I go much further I would like t...