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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 September 2020

24 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

This is quite a moment for me. Rising to speak in favour of my own bill brings with it a real sense of responsibility.

I pay tribute to the various organisations that have supported the development of the bill and that have campaigned with me to promote it. It has been hugely rewarding to campaign with trade unions such as the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, the GMB and Unite the Union, as well as employers’ representatives such as the Scottish Grocers Federation, the Scottish Retail Consortium, the National Federation of Retail Newsagents, Scotmid and the Co-operative Group. It is a cause with regard to which unions and employers are of one view, and that alone should say something about the importance of the issue.

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a member of USDAW and of the Co-operative Party as well as a director of a company with retail interests.

I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its thorough and helpful scrutiny of the bill; I thank the non-Government bills unit for its help, advice and assistance throughout the process; and I thank Ash Denham for her constructive engagement with the bill.

We are six months into the pandemic, and it has brought a sharp focus on the crucial role that is played by shop workers. They make sure that we can obtain the bare necessities and essentials of life—shop workers have stepped up to keep us safe when we do so. The pandemic has also exacerbated the disturbing behaviours of a small minority who, when faced with restrictions, have responded with abuse, threats and violence towards shop staff who are simply trying to uphold those rules and keep us all safe. USDAW, the shop workers union, estimates that the number of such incidents has doubled during the pandemic, and almost 70 per cent of retail workers cite enforcing social distancing requirements as the biggest single cause of the abuse and violence that they face at work.

The pandemic has brought the need for the bill into focus. Shop workers have been on the front line of the response, as a consequence of which they have faced abuse and assault. That is unacceptable. Put simply, violence, threats and abuse are not just part of the job for anyone, whether they work behind a desk or behind a shop counter. It should not have taken the pandemic to provide that insight.

The challenge 25 age check has become the norm in recent years, and there are dozens of goods and services for which purchasing customers must prove their age. What most people do not realise is that it is the shop workers who are liable if they fail to ask for proof of age. They can be fined £5,000 or serve time in prison if they sell an item or a service to an individual without checking their identity. It is that same legal duty that also triggers incidents of abuse and violence. According to USDAW, 15 shop workers are assaulted in Scotland every day, and the Scottish Grocers Federation reports that half of its members receive abuse every day because they are asking for ID.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-22226, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goo...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
This is quite a moment for me. Rising to speak in favour of my own bill brings with it a real sense of responsibility. I pay tribute to the various organisa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I agree with all that the member has said so far. How does he feel about other workers who are not retail workers? Should they, too, be protected?
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a useful intervention. Unfortunately, I am a solitary member and this is a member’s bill. There is a case for looking at the protection that all publ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Gordon Lindhurst will open the debate on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. 15:37
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
As the saying goes, the customer is always right—it was the founders of Selfridges and the Ritz hotel who first popularised the phrase. Variations on the the...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
I begin by recognising the important role that retail workers play in our local communities and the wider Scottish economy. During the Covid-19 outbreak, the...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
What is the minister’s view on the representation of the Association of Convenience Stores that the maximum penalty in the bill might not be strong enough?
Ash Denham SNP
The maximum penalty in the bill would be up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to £10,000. We imagine that most offences will be captured under the bi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to contribute to this stage 1 debate on the bill. Daniel Johnson knows that I am sympathetic to what he is trying to achieve, as we have discuss...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest as a member of USDAW and the GMB, which both represent retail workers. I am delighted to be able to speak in favour of the bill at sta...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, welcome the bill, and commend Daniel Johnson for his work to introduce it. The Scottish Greens support the general principles of the bill and will vo...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Presiding Officer, I offer my apologies—to you, to the Presiding Officer who was then in the chair, and to other members—that I was not here at the start of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of absolutely no more than four minutes, please. I do not want to delay decision time or cut out speakers. 16:12
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, I support the general principles of the bill. It is important that we have a full debate on the i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
If everybody takes an extra five seconds, that makes us late. I call Alison Harris. 16:16
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
That is a challenge—thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, am a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. Since Daniel Johnson introduced the bi...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
As others have done, I thank Daniel Johnson for navigating his member’s bill through stage 1. It is a robust bill, albeit that I know that some amendments ar...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests. I am a member of USDAW and Unite. I am delighted to support Daniel Johnson’s bill and congratulate...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for introducing his bill with the support of USDAW—the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers. It is on a matter that is impor...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Without doubt, the bill has a commendable purpose. As I was convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee during the stage 1 process, I would like ...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Daniel Johnson on and commend him for his hard work and absolute determination to introduce the bill and reach this stage. I also pay tr...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I have been a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee off and on. I am currently a substitute member, but I was not involved in the bill at all...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I join colleagues in congratulating Daniel Johnson on getting his bill to Parliament and this stage. It is clear that there are more discussion and negotiati...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
It goes without question that no one should face violent abuse or untoward behaviour at their place of work. Sadly, however, violence against shop workers is...
Ash Denham SNP
I thank all members who have contributed to this debate on an important issue. It is clear that we all agree that the abuse of a retail worker is totally una...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Daniel Johnson to close the debate. You can take us up to decision time. 16:58
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will do so gladly. I begin by thanking everyone who has taken part in the debate. It has been encouraging to hear such a broad range of views and to have ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, Mr Johnson. I know that we have a half-empty chamber, but it is awfully noisy. Could members take care, please?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I know that those retail workers will be heartened to know that we take the issues that they face daily seriously. Before I go much further I would like t...