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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 23 September 2020

23 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prioritising Education
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

It has been the choice of Mr Swinney’s Government to make those decisions. That is why we have seen a reduction in teacher numbers. It is nothing whatever to do with what has happened at Westminster.

Let me come to the question of subject choice, which is relevant to the number of teachers. We know that there has been a reduction in subject choice and that that has had a significant effect on core subjects. Of course, that will get worse with Covid-19, but the reduction in core subjects has had a significant effect. As Iain Gray set out, it has also had an effect on multilevel teaching.

We also know that, on far too many occasions in recent years, the inability of some local authorities to find teachers to employ, often after extensive advertisement, has laid bare the fact that workforce planning is inadequate in some crucial areas. There are clearly barriers within the system that are preventing a more flexible and freer movement of qualified teachers across it.

As I have said before, I fully appreciate that we cannot turn that around overnight. However, we can make a lot of progress—and we should have been making that progress, because we were warned about the problem many years ago. To give Fiona Hyslop due credit, when she took over the job of Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, she said in 2008 that she was surprised that local government teacher requirements were not fully factored into national planning. She asked her teacher employment working group, as it was known in those days, to address that. However, on top of that came cuts—from 30 million teachers down to 22 million in 2016.

Too often, we have heard from probationers who have given evidence to the Education and Skills Committee that there are constraints within the system that create a disincentive to apply for some of the posts of their choice. Too often, there has been a disconnect between teaching universities, the General Teaching Council for Scotland and local government. Although that is beginning to improve, there are still situations in which willing teachers are finding it very difficult to get work because they have to manipulate the system to get the necessary accreditation. That puts some people off.

I will tell the Parliament about the Teach First situation, because I understand that, at one stage, Mr Swinney was interested in having a Scottish version of it. At the time, he spoke to the University of Aberdeen and the GTCS about having a GTCS-accredited Scottish Teach First programme. I will be interested to see whether he chooses to deny that, because that held the possibility of getting rid of some of the inflexibility in the system.

We also know that in 2016, the Scottish Government’s STEMEC—science, technology, engineering and mathematics education committee—report called for the routes into science teaching to be diversified. I think that we are making some progress on the STEM bursary scheme, but we have not had very many updates on that. I re-echo the Conservative Party’s support in 2015 for the Royal Society of Chemistry’s call for a dedicated science teacher to be assigned to every primary school.

Quite rightly, Mr Swinney acknowledges that he is ultimately responsible for decision making in education. The public agree, but they share our frustration that, despite all the undoubted talent in Scotland’s schools, we are not performing nearly as well as we should be, which is a conclusion that the OECD came to in 2015.

The oft-quoted mantra that education is the SNP’s top priority has proven to be no more than hollow words, especially when the main priority in this year’s programme for government is all about independence.

16:12  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22780, in the name of Jamie Greene, on prioritising education over independence. 15:23
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
This is arguably one of the most important motions that I have lodged in my time in the Parliament. It is on education. In the middle of a global pandemic, w...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I associate myself with Mr Greene’s remarks on the contribution of the teaching profession during the lockdown period, in which, in his words, its members de...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The Scottish Parliament had the opportunity to pass a new education bill. Why did that not happen?
John Swinney SNP
Because the Government was able to make the reforms without legislating for them. Interruption. Those reforms were about empowering schools—putting powers in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I will call Daniel Johnson in a moment but first, I say to Conservative members in particular that it is important that we are all able to hear members’ ques...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I understand the Deputy First Minister’s frustrations about how the motion for debate was drawn up by the Conservatives, but we are four minutes into his spe...
John Swinney SNP
That is timely as that is precisely the point that I have got to in my speech. Until the Government has the opportunity to put the Scottish question to the ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Does Mr Swinney accept that many of those new teaching posts are part time or temporary because of how he has chosen to fund teacher number increases?
John Swinney SNP
No, I do not, because the overwhelming majority—Interruption. The overwhelming majority of teaching posts are permanent posts, which I would have thought tha...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I return to a subject that I have asked the cabinet secretary about many times before—the digital poverty gap and the technology that is required. I am still...
John Swinney SNP
The estimates of the likely number of pupils who did not have access to digital learning were of the order of 70,000. Through the first tranche of the propos...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I know that the Tory motion is designed to wind up the SNP—it seems to have worked with Mr Swinney—but it points to an inconvenient truth for SNP members, be...
John Swinney SNP
I invite Mr Gray to reflect on what he has just said. Perhaps that will help him to understand why his party is in some political difficulty in Scotland. In ...
Iain Gray Lab
No, I did not. The truth is that those children are being failed by Mr Swinney’s Government and by the Conservative Government. That is why the Government’s...
John Swinney SNP
The Government has put in £135 million of new resources to assist schools in the recovery, including through the provision of new staff. Why can Mr Gray not ...
Iain Gray Lab
The resources that John Swinney refers to are the additional resources that local authorities needed just to get schools reopened safely for everyone. Interr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Swinney!
Iain Gray Lab
Nothing will be provided to help the families of children who are living in poverty until February. Despite that, there is all the time in the world for the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I again remind members to desist from making comments from a sedentary position, in order that the debate can be properly heard. 15:54
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I have to admit to being somewhat bemused by the Tories’ motion. At the weekend, they were briefing the press that they would bring the issue of the 2021 exa...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
In March, just as the country was starting to comprehend the scale and seriousness of the pandemic, we debated the state of Scottish education. The PISA resu...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is, of course, common knowledge that, in several programmes for government, the SNP has been unequivocal in placing education at the top of its priorities...
John Swinney SNP
I understand Liz Smith’s argument about teacher numbers, but is she going to pass comment at some stage on the financial environment of austerity that we hav...
Liz Smith Con
In the past few days, we have laid out exactly how we hope to address the question of teacher numbers. We have made specific calculations—Interruption. They ...
John Swinney SNP
Liz Smith has made an historical point about the reduction in teacher numbers compared with the number in 2007. I accept those numbers, but I ask Liz Smith t...
Liz Smith Con
It has been the choice of Mr Swinney’s Government to make those decisions. That is why we have seen a reduction in teacher numbers. It is nothing whatever to...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be speaking in the debate led by the Conservative Party, but I note that in lodging the motion and telling the SNP to focus on closing the attai...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to discuss how we create a fairer society and tackle inequality—inequality that is particularly visible in education. We know th...
Jamie Greene Con
Will Labour members support our calls for a national tutoring and mentoring scheme, using some of those organisations, properly funded, to deliver support to...