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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 23 September 2020

23 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prioritising Education

I know that the Tory motion is designed to wind up the SNP—it seems to have worked with Mr Swinney—but it points to an inconvenient truth for SNP members, because all the evidence shows that they have consistently prioritised the pursuit of independence over education.

Since 2007, we have had not just an actual referendum and a white paper on independence, but countless discussion documents, draft bills, bills, consultation papers, commissions, consultations on draft bills and more white papers, and now here we are with the machinery of government putting its shoulder to the wheel of yet another draft referendum bill.

Meanwhile, those same years have seen broken promises on teacher numbers, class sizes, student debt and closing the attainment gap. Cuts in teacher numbers, cuts in support staff, cuts in additional support specialists, rising class sizes, falling literacy and numeracy rates compared with those in other countries and in previous years, falling higher pass rates year on year, and pupils routinely being taught in classes of two, three, or even four different levels.

Those years have also seen an attainment gap that stubbornly refuses to close, except through Mr Swinney’s ever more convoluted ways of trying to measure it. What is more, not only has the Government failed on the attainment gap, but it is failing on the causes of the attainment gap.

Mr Swinney is correct that it is poverty that underlies that attainment gap. There is no doubt that success in education is the best route out of poverty. If there is a magic key to unlock greater opportunity and a better life, it is education. Equity in education means that we must provide every additional support that we can to the pupils who face the greatest barriers to educational success, to help them overcome those barriers and achieve.

However—in this Mr Swinney is right, too—schools cannot by themselves rid society of poverty. If we are to eliminate the systemic poverty-related attainment gap, we must eradicate poverty itself. That is why I will move the amendment in my name.

I say that the Government is failing because the evidence shows that by the age of three, children from higher-income families already outperform those from low-income households, and by the age of five, there is a 10-month gap in problem-solving development and a 13-month gap in vocabulary. In the struggle between poverty and education, education is running to catch up from the word go.

One in four children in Scotland lives in poverty and faces those barriers to educational success, and there are 50,000 more of them than there were just five years ago. Much of that is, indeed, to do with welfare reforms and austerity programmes driven by Conservative Governments in Westminster, but the Scottish Government’s poverty commissioner has repeatedly told the Government that it is failing those children, too. We see the consequences in their mental and physical health and in the attainment gap.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22780, in the name of Jamie Greene, on prioritising education over independence. 15:23
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
This is arguably one of the most important motions that I have lodged in my time in the Parliament. It is on education. In the middle of a global pandemic, w...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I associate myself with Mr Greene’s remarks on the contribution of the teaching profession during the lockdown period, in which, in his words, its members de...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The Scottish Parliament had the opportunity to pass a new education bill. Why did that not happen?
John Swinney SNP
Because the Government was able to make the reforms without legislating for them. Interruption. Those reforms were about empowering schools—putting powers in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I will call Daniel Johnson in a moment but first, I say to Conservative members in particular that it is important that we are all able to hear members’ ques...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I understand the Deputy First Minister’s frustrations about how the motion for debate was drawn up by the Conservatives, but we are four minutes into his spe...
John Swinney SNP
That is timely as that is precisely the point that I have got to in my speech. Until the Government has the opportunity to put the Scottish question to the ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Does Mr Swinney accept that many of those new teaching posts are part time or temporary because of how he has chosen to fund teacher number increases?
John Swinney SNP
No, I do not, because the overwhelming majority—Interruption. The overwhelming majority of teaching posts are permanent posts, which I would have thought tha...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I return to a subject that I have asked the cabinet secretary about many times before—the digital poverty gap and the technology that is required. I am still...
John Swinney SNP
The estimates of the likely number of pupils who did not have access to digital learning were of the order of 70,000. Through the first tranche of the propos...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I know that the Tory motion is designed to wind up the SNP—it seems to have worked with Mr Swinney—but it points to an inconvenient truth for SNP members, be...
John Swinney SNP
I invite Mr Gray to reflect on what he has just said. Perhaps that will help him to understand why his party is in some political difficulty in Scotland. In ...
Iain Gray Lab
No, I did not. The truth is that those children are being failed by Mr Swinney’s Government and by the Conservative Government. That is why the Government’s...
John Swinney SNP
The Government has put in £135 million of new resources to assist schools in the recovery, including through the provision of new staff. Why can Mr Gray not ...
Iain Gray Lab
The resources that John Swinney refers to are the additional resources that local authorities needed just to get schools reopened safely for everyone. Interr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Swinney!
Iain Gray Lab
Nothing will be provided to help the families of children who are living in poverty until February. Despite that, there is all the time in the world for the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I again remind members to desist from making comments from a sedentary position, in order that the debate can be properly heard. 15:54
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I have to admit to being somewhat bemused by the Tories’ motion. At the weekend, they were briefing the press that they would bring the issue of the 2021 exa...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
In March, just as the country was starting to comprehend the scale and seriousness of the pandemic, we debated the state of Scottish education. The PISA resu...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is, of course, common knowledge that, in several programmes for government, the SNP has been unequivocal in placing education at the top of its priorities...
John Swinney SNP
I understand Liz Smith’s argument about teacher numbers, but is she going to pass comment at some stage on the financial environment of austerity that we hav...
Liz Smith Con
In the past few days, we have laid out exactly how we hope to address the question of teacher numbers. We have made specific calculations—Interruption. They ...
John Swinney SNP
Liz Smith has made an historical point about the reduction in teacher numbers compared with the number in 2007. I accept those numbers, but I ask Liz Smith t...
Liz Smith Con
It has been the choice of Mr Swinney’s Government to make those decisions. That is why we have seen a reduction in teacher numbers. It is nothing whatever to...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be speaking in the debate led by the Conservative Party, but I note that in lodging the motion and telling the SNP to focus on closing the attai...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to discuss how we create a fairer society and tackle inequality—inequality that is particularly visible in education. We know th...
Jamie Greene Con
Will Labour members support our calls for a national tutoring and mentoring scheme, using some of those organisations, properly funded, to deliver support to...