Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 23 September 2020
23 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prioritising Education
Because the Government was able to make the reforms without legislating for them. [Interruption.] Those reforms were about empowering schools—putting powers into the hands of our teachers and headteachers and enabling them to take the action that is required to close the attainment gap.
Not only is there irony in the Conservatives’ position in the debate; there is hypocrisy. Their position is actually worse than simply refusing to will the means to tackle the root cause of the attainment gap, which, as I have said, is poverty; they are actively trying to strip the Parliament of its powers to tackle such issues. The United Kingdom Internal Market Bill is a “naked power grab”. Those are not my words but those of the First Minister of Wales.
The Scottish Government has set out its plan to publish, before the end of this parliamentary session, a draft referendum bill that would set out, clearly and unambiguously, the terms of a future referendum on Scottish independence.
If there is majority support for the bill in the Scottish Parliament, there can be no moral or democratic justification whatsoever for the UK Government to ignore the rights of the people of Scotland to choose their own future, and be in no doubt, Presiding Officer—that day is coming. Soon—very soon—the people will be heard and the Tories will be left on the wrong side of history on the Scottish question.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22780, in the name of Jamie Greene, on prioritising education over independence. 15:23
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
This is arguably one of the most important motions that I have lodged in my time in the Parliament. It is on education. In the middle of a global pandemic, w...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
I associate myself with Mr Greene’s remarks on the contribution of the teaching profession during the lockdown period, in which, in his words, its members de...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The Scottish Parliament had the opportunity to pass a new education bill. Why did that not happen?
John Swinney
SNP
Because the Government was able to make the reforms without legislating for them. Interruption. Those reforms were about empowering schools—putting powers in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald)
Lab
I will call Daniel Johnson in a moment but first, I say to Conservative members in particular that it is important that we are all able to hear members’ ques...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I understand the Deputy First Minister’s frustrations about how the motion for debate was drawn up by the Conservatives, but we are four minutes into his spe...
John Swinney
SNP
That is timely as that is precisely the point that I have got to in my speech. Until the Government has the opportunity to put the Scottish question to the ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Does Mr Swinney accept that many of those new teaching posts are part time or temporary because of how he has chosen to fund teacher number increases?
John Swinney
SNP
No, I do not, because the overwhelming majority—Interruption. The overwhelming majority of teaching posts are permanent posts, which I would have thought tha...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I return to a subject that I have asked the cabinet secretary about many times before—the digital poverty gap and the technology that is required. I am still...
John Swinney
SNP
The estimates of the likely number of pupils who did not have access to digital learning were of the order of 70,000. Through the first tranche of the propos...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I know that the Tory motion is designed to wind up the SNP—it seems to have worked with Mr Swinney—but it points to an inconvenient truth for SNP members, be...
John Swinney
SNP
I invite Mr Gray to reflect on what he has just said. Perhaps that will help him to understand why his party is in some political difficulty in Scotland. In ...
Iain Gray
Lab
No, I did not. The truth is that those children are being failed by Mr Swinney’s Government and by the Conservative Government. That is why the Government’s...
John Swinney
SNP
The Government has put in £135 million of new resources to assist schools in the recovery, including through the provision of new staff. Why can Mr Gray not ...
Iain Gray
Lab
The resources that John Swinney refers to are the additional resources that local authorities needed just to get schools reopened safely for everyone. Interr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Mr Swinney!
Iain Gray
Lab
Nothing will be provided to help the families of children who are living in poverty until February. Despite that, there is all the time in the world for the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I again remind members to desist from making comments from a sedentary position, in order that the debate can be properly heard. 15:54
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I have to admit to being somewhat bemused by the Tories’ motion. At the weekend, they were briefing the press that they would bring the issue of the 2021 exa...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
In March, just as the country was starting to comprehend the scale and seriousness of the pandemic, we debated the state of Scottish education. The PISA resu...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
It is, of course, common knowledge that, in several programmes for government, the SNP has been unequivocal in placing education at the top of its priorities...
John Swinney
SNP
I understand Liz Smith’s argument about teacher numbers, but is she going to pass comment at some stage on the financial environment of austerity that we hav...
Liz Smith
Con
In the past few days, we have laid out exactly how we hope to address the question of teacher numbers. We have made specific calculations—Interruption. They ...
John Swinney
SNP
Liz Smith has made an historical point about the reduction in teacher numbers compared with the number in 2007. I accept those numbers, but I ask Liz Smith t...
Liz Smith
Con
It has been the choice of Mr Swinney’s Government to make those decisions. That is why we have seen a reduction in teacher numbers. It is nothing whatever to...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
I am glad to be speaking in the debate led by the Conservative Party, but I note that in lodging the motion and telling the SNP to focus on closing the attai...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to discuss how we create a fairer society and tackle inequality—inequality that is particularly visible in education. We know th...
Jamie Greene
Con
Will Labour members support our calls for a national tutoring and mentoring scheme, using some of those organisations, properly funded, to deliver support to...