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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 September 2020

22 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Centres

I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the experienced, well-qualified staff who help to make them so special.

From our world-famous Highlands and our brilliant beaches to the Pentland Hills here in Lothian, Scotland is blessed with some of the most spectacular outdoor space in the world. The pandemic has led more of us to get out into the outdoors. However, it has also highlighted how vital it is that we ensure that everyone knows how to behave in a safe and sustainable way when they are in those forests, mountains, beaches, seas and waterways.

Outdoor education plays an important role in that. Scotland was an early pioneer of outdoor education; it was one of the first countries in the world to formalise it as part of children’s learning. Now, every year, some 105,000 young people and children go on outdoor residential trips and day outings. The City of Edinburgh Council’s three outdoor centres—Benmore outdoor centre, near Dunoon, Lagganlia centre for outdoor education, near Aviemore, which I should say I am a friend of; and the Bangholm centre, right here in Edinburgh—provide outstanding access to walking, mountain biking, water sports and other activities. Although the Bridge 8 Hub, which is on the canal at the Calders, is not a residential centre, it provides canoeing and kayaking to school groups and people of all ages who might not otherwise have such an experience.

It is quite right that curriculum for excellence recognises that learning in the outdoors can make significant contributions to literacy, numeracy and health and wellbeing. If a curriculum does not include outdoor learning, it is not excellent. Research from Learning Away shows that residential outdoor learning provides opportunities and benefits that cannot be achieved in another educational setting. In its briefing, Scouts Scotland told us that outdoor learning is

“particularly beneficial to those who struggle to engage with more formal education”.

Outdoor education can help close the attainment gap and, if anyone is still not convinced—and I know that colleagues across the chamber are—a social return on investment analysis shows that every £1 spent by the Scottish Environmental and Education Centres Association generates over £11 of environmental and social benefits for young people.

The latest Scottish health survey shows no improvement in the sedentary time spent by children since 2015—that is five years—so we need to ensure that each and every child and young person can access outdoor educational opportunities. That requires us to preserve our outdoor centres for this and future generations. Sadly, we have already lost Girlguiding Scotland’s Netherurd centre in West Linton. Many other centres have reached out to MSPs in advance of this debate to warn that some are not getting any financial help beyond the job retention scheme and that they need urgent assistance.

Outdoor learning should be much more than a one-off residential stay; Scouts Scotland is right to point that out in its briefing. Who would disagree that it is a hugely underused resource? School residential weeks are a highlight of our education system. For some young people—often those from families on low incomes—it might be a journey to another world in which they discover strengths that they did not know they had and they are challenged in ways that build resilience.

Establishing and running outdoor centres is a complex operation that requires investment, and if we lose some centres, I am afraid that some will be gone for ever. Therefore, I join colleagues who are calling on the Scottish Government to do whatever it can to provide financial and any other necessary support to our fantastic outdoor centres.

I know that the Government appreciates input on where that cash might come from. Just a few weeks ago, research by my colleague Andy Wightman revealed that nine out of 10 of Scotland’s shooting properties, including some owned by billionaires, receive non-domestic rates relief worth £10.5 million. I suggest that, if we can afford that, there is money to support outdoor centres to get our young people cycling, kayaking, hillwalking and much more.

Of course, we need to keep our children, young people and their teachers safe, but we need to look at whether the guidelines that have been issued to schools are unnecessarily restricting access to outdoor education at a time when access to exercise and learning outside classrooms could not be more important.

Right now, organisations such as the Water of Leith Conservation Trust and the Green Team at Tynecastle in Edinburgh are keen to offer outdoor learning to schools. Schools are enthusiastic to take up that offer, but they are currently unable to do so. With social distancing even more important as a result of today’s announcement by the First Minister, it is time to consider what greater role outdoor education can play in the lives of our children and young people. It is surely easier to maintain safe distances when learning outdoors than in the classroom.

Scotland has a long and proud history of supporting children and young people’s access to the great outdoors. We need to build on that, not abandon it. I ask colleagues whether they would be interested in forming an informal cross-party working group to ensure that we take forward the work that has begun as a result of Liz Smith’s debate. I pledge the full support of the Scottish Greens to the #SaveYourOutdoorCentres campaign.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22652, in the name of Liz Smith, on residential outdoor centres. The debate will...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank all the members who signed the motion and all those who will contribute to this evening’s debate. I open the debate with two personal experiences in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We have lots of speakers so I ask members to stick to speeches of no more than four minutes. Bruce Crawford will be followed by J...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am not now—for once I am not silent.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am pleased to hear it. Would you like to start again?
Bruce Crawford SNP
Thank you. I welcome the debate, and thank Liz Smith for bringing it to the chamber. The outdoor facilities under discussion have formed a small but importan...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the debate to the chamber. When she said that she had secured a members’ business debate, I was proactively pleased about part...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the se...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Corry. I am glad that it was only four weeks that you were there for; otherwise we might have been here a lot longer. 17:33
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I warmly welcome the debate and thank Liz Smith for securing it. Perhaps it represents a timely bridge between her previous portfolio responsibility for educ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liz Smith for allowing the debate to take place. From our time together on the Education and Skills Committee, I know that she has been a long-time a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quite a few more members would like to speak in the debate, so I am happy to accept a motion, under rule 8.14.3, that the debate be extended by up to 30 minu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour. 17:41
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not take up the full 30 minutes that you have just given us as an extension. Laughter. As other members have done, I de...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The expertise is not just in taking people rock climbing, canoeing and things such as Jeremy Balfour mentioned; it is also about dealing with children. That ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Mr Mountain has made a fair and good point. That expertise could disappear; staff might decide to go off and find jobs in other areas, so when centres reopen...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Liz Smith MSP for bringing the debate to Parliament and for her inspiring call to save our outdoor centres. Scotland’s residential outdoor centres h...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Liz Smith for lodging the motion for debate. I disagree with very little of what she said, and I welcome the consensual and non-party-political manne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all going a bit over the four minutes. I am worried that we are going to run out of time again. 17:56
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue. Glaisnock House, 1981, wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber. The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many w...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Richard Lochhead to respond to the debate for as long as he likes. 18:11
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Thank you for that prompt, Presiding Officer. The Covid-19 pandemic has led to a very significant challenge for the entire education system in Scotland, but...
Liz Smith Con
I could not agree with the minister more. He is echoing exactly what every member said. Given the cross-party agreement on this, is the minister minded to ac...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I will take that on board, and I am coming to some of the steps that we could take. There is no doubt that outdoor centres support learners’ health and well...
Jamie Greene Con
Apologies to Mr Wightman—I believe it was a race to stand up there. Notwithstanding the financial pressures that all Governments are facing and the funds t...
Richard Lochhead SNP
As the member is aware, outdoor centres operate under a number of different models. Some are run by local authorities, some are third sector, some are privat...