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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 September 2020

22 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Centres

I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber.

The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many ways gone into reverse is a sobering reminder that Covid-19 has not gone away. Talk of eradication has been replaced by talk of suppressing the virus to the lowest possible level and keeping it there. I get the fact that there need to be restrictions on our everyday lives and that many of those restrictions will be with us for some time to come. Much is said about those restrictions being based on the science, and I do not dispute that the First Minister and others will be conscious of the scientific advice that they receive when it comes to the incredibly difficult choices that they have to make.

However, ultimately, we know that every decision is a political one. As the number of cases of Covid-19 initially began to fall, the Government had an element of headroom and ministers were able to make decisions on which areas to prioritise when it came to easing that lockdown. There is no list for the perfect order that the easing should be carried out in, but there is a list of choices. When it comes to outdoor education, I genuinely have difficulty in understanding the choices that the Government continues to make. For example, I have difficulty in understanding that a choice was made that a group of 10, 20 or more older adults who might never have met each other before could all go on a weekend shooting trip together, but a class of schoolchildren who might well spend the week together in the classroom are not allowed to spend more of that precious time benefiting from outdoor education.

I could describe exactly what the benefits to those children are, but I am not going to; instead, I am going to let them do the talking. Pupils at Belmont primary school in Stranraer recently wrote to the Deputy First Minister to tell him just what Abernethy Barcaple outdoor centre, located in the beautiful secluded hills near Castle Douglas in Kirkcudbright, means to them. Emma from primary 7 said:

“I built up my confidence and overcame challenges while staying away from my parents ... I am very shy so I find it hard to make friends, but staying in a room with different girls I didn’t know so well boosted my confidence and helped me to make new friends.”

In another letter, Declan said:

“I had the best experience of my life at Barcaple. My memories will last forever ... Going to outdoor centres helps children develop so many new skills. It’s also very good for your mental health because of all the fresh air and freedom you get from being outside.”

The pupils also produced a wonderful video on YouTube, which I recommend to members.

We have only to listen to those young people to appreciate what outdoor education means for them and to recognise what they are missing out on. If the Government has made a choice—no doubt because it believes that it is the right choice to make when it comes to the priorities for easing lockdown—and providing that residential experience does not fit with those priorities, it needs to deal with the impact of those choices. If the Government allows the sector to collapse, it will be denying not just today’s pupils from Belmont primary the benefits of outdoor education but future generations, and it will be depriving them of the opportunity to gain lifelong skills and benefit from the unique experience that outdoor education equips them with.

The sector desperately needs support now. As Daniel Johnson highlighted, many in the sector have not been able to access any of the financial support available to businesses and other third sector organisations—it is very much the forgotten sector.

Scouts Scotland has warned that it is set to lose £2.3 million this year alone. A collapse of income is happening across the sector. Outward Bound has warned that, once centres close, they will close for ever. That would be a tragedy at any time but, as Liz Smith highlighted, at a time when children face spending part of their childhood in the shadow of this pandemic and when the benefits of outdoor education on mental and physical health are arguably needed more than ever before, it would be a travesty if the Government did not recognise the urgency of this crisis and did not do more to provide the sector with the support that it badly needs to save our outdoor centres, not only for today’s children but for generations to come.

18:05  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22652, in the name of Liz Smith, on residential outdoor centres. The debate will...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank all the members who signed the motion and all those who will contribute to this evening’s debate. I open the debate with two personal experiences in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We have lots of speakers so I ask members to stick to speeches of no more than four minutes. Bruce Crawford will be followed by J...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am not now—for once I am not silent.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am pleased to hear it. Would you like to start again?
Bruce Crawford SNP
Thank you. I welcome the debate, and thank Liz Smith for bringing it to the chamber. The outdoor facilities under discussion have formed a small but importan...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the debate to the chamber. When she said that she had secured a members’ business debate, I was proactively pleased about part...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the se...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Corry. I am glad that it was only four weeks that you were there for; otherwise we might have been here a lot longer. 17:33
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I warmly welcome the debate and thank Liz Smith for securing it. Perhaps it represents a timely bridge between her previous portfolio responsibility for educ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liz Smith for allowing the debate to take place. From our time together on the Education and Skills Committee, I know that she has been a long-time a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quite a few more members would like to speak in the debate, so I am happy to accept a motion, under rule 8.14.3, that the debate be extended by up to 30 minu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour. 17:41
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not take up the full 30 minutes that you have just given us as an extension. Laughter. As other members have done, I de...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The expertise is not just in taking people rock climbing, canoeing and things such as Jeremy Balfour mentioned; it is also about dealing with children. That ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Mr Mountain has made a fair and good point. That expertise could disappear; staff might decide to go off and find jobs in other areas, so when centres reopen...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Liz Smith MSP for bringing the debate to Parliament and for her inspiring call to save our outdoor centres. Scotland’s residential outdoor centres h...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Liz Smith for lodging the motion for debate. I disagree with very little of what she said, and I welcome the consensual and non-party-political manne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all going a bit over the four minutes. I am worried that we are going to run out of time again. 17:56
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue. Glaisnock House, 1981, wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber. The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many w...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Richard Lochhead to respond to the debate for as long as he likes. 18:11
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Thank you for that prompt, Presiding Officer. The Covid-19 pandemic has led to a very significant challenge for the entire education system in Scotland, but...
Liz Smith Con
I could not agree with the minister more. He is echoing exactly what every member said. Given the cross-party agreement on this, is the minister minded to ac...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I will take that on board, and I am coming to some of the steps that we could take. There is no doubt that outdoor centres support learners’ health and well...
Jamie Greene Con
Apologies to Mr Wightman—I believe it was a race to stand up there. Notwithstanding the financial pressures that all Governments are facing and the funds t...
Richard Lochhead SNP
As the member is aware, outdoor centres operate under a number of different models. Some are run by local authorities, some are third sector, some are privat...