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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 September 2020

22 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Centres

I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue.

Glaisnock House, 1981, will forever remain tattooed on the inside of my head. It was a two-day O-level geology field trip that had us examining the igneous intrusion that is the Lugar sill, traipsing through the lead mines under the Lugar Hills while trying to scare the living daylights out of our teachers and classmates, surviving on about 10 minutes’ sleep in two nights, and being present in a classroom when the class was asked what the first living thing on earth was. A certain classmate, who shall remain nameless, stood up and declared that the first living thing on earth was a brontosaurus. Of course, the way my mind works, I just envisaged this empty world with nothing in it and then all of a sudden a 50-tonne brontosaurus appearing from thin air. That would have been something to behold.

Members might think that that story is a good reason not to allow pupils anywhere near a residential outdoor trip, but nearly 40 years later, one of the first topics that an old friend who I had not seen for many years and I spoke about was exactly that trip with much hilarity.

I have used the phrase “shared experiences” often in this place. Of course, we learned an awful lot in an environment that cannot be replicated in the classroom. That, of course, is the point. We need to afford our pupils as many learning opportunities as possible, including that experiential learning. We all learn and are inspired in different ways. Some can get it from a book and some can get it from listening to others but, without a doubt, the best way to learn is by experience.

The pandemic is understandably sucking the oxygen out of the room, and it is difficult to consider anything other what the next restrictions might be or how we can remain as safe as possible. However, we must recognise that there will be a time after Covid. In all the turmoil that we are working through, we must consider what we want our community to look like then.

Outdoor learning, especially in outdoor centres that are specifically set up to enhance the educational experience of our pupils, must be part of that, especially for those from less-well-off communities. Those are the pupils who are less likely to have such opportunities.

I managed to take my youngest away for a few days to one of those outdoor centres at Crieff, where we went swinging through the trees in the pouring rain and quad biking. The only downside for me was that the first person I bumped into there was Anas Sarwar.

My fear is that we are on a path that will lead to hugely reducing learning opportunities and that that will exacerbate inequalities. We must retain our residential outdoor centres as a matter of priority, because if we lose them, they will be next to impossible to replace, as others have said. In fact, I would go so far as to say that allowing pupils to look forward to a residential outdoor course could go a long way to tackle the anxiety that they will be feeling at the moment. It was a huge disappointment to my youngest and her classmates when they had to cancel their primary 7 trip to Lockerbie before the summer holidays. That is an experience that they will now never have had. My eldest had a hugely rewarding experience by going to work in Camp America and teaching Americans how to horseride.

I have spoken many times in the chamber about the attainment fund and using it to access the transport to outdoor learning centres. Covid has cost us so much, but we should ensure that there are opportunities for our children after the Covid crisis subsides that are similar to those personal experiences that most of us have talked about. It is important that outdoor centres are maintained for future generations.

18:01  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22652, in the name of Liz Smith, on residential outdoor centres. The debate will...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank all the members who signed the motion and all those who will contribute to this evening’s debate. I open the debate with two personal experiences in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We have lots of speakers so I ask members to stick to speeches of no more than four minutes. Bruce Crawford will be followed by J...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am not now—for once I am not silent.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am pleased to hear it. Would you like to start again?
Bruce Crawford SNP
Thank you. I welcome the debate, and thank Liz Smith for bringing it to the chamber. The outdoor facilities under discussion have formed a small but importan...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the debate to the chamber. When she said that she had secured a members’ business debate, I was proactively pleased about part...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the se...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Corry. I am glad that it was only four weeks that you were there for; otherwise we might have been here a lot longer. 17:33
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I warmly welcome the debate and thank Liz Smith for securing it. Perhaps it represents a timely bridge between her previous portfolio responsibility for educ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liz Smith for allowing the debate to take place. From our time together on the Education and Skills Committee, I know that she has been a long-time a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quite a few more members would like to speak in the debate, so I am happy to accept a motion, under rule 8.14.3, that the debate be extended by up to 30 minu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour. 17:41
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not take up the full 30 minutes that you have just given us as an extension. Laughter. As other members have done, I de...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The expertise is not just in taking people rock climbing, canoeing and things such as Jeremy Balfour mentioned; it is also about dealing with children. That ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Mr Mountain has made a fair and good point. That expertise could disappear; staff might decide to go off and find jobs in other areas, so when centres reopen...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Liz Smith MSP for bringing the debate to Parliament and for her inspiring call to save our outdoor centres. Scotland’s residential outdoor centres h...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Liz Smith for lodging the motion for debate. I disagree with very little of what she said, and I welcome the consensual and non-party-political manne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all going a bit over the four minutes. I am worried that we are going to run out of time again. 17:56
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue. Glaisnock House, 1981, wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber. The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many w...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Richard Lochhead to respond to the debate for as long as he likes. 18:11
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Thank you for that prompt, Presiding Officer. The Covid-19 pandemic has led to a very significant challenge for the entire education system in Scotland, but...
Liz Smith Con
I could not agree with the minister more. He is echoing exactly what every member said. Given the cross-party agreement on this, is the minister minded to ac...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I will take that on board, and I am coming to some of the steps that we could take. There is no doubt that outdoor centres support learners’ health and well...
Jamie Greene Con
Apologies to Mr Wightman—I believe it was a race to stand up there. Notwithstanding the financial pressures that all Governments are facing and the funds t...
Richard Lochhead SNP
As the member is aware, outdoor centres operate under a number of different models. Some are run by local authorities, some are third sector, some are privat...