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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 September 2020

22 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Centres

I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the sector, which have been well highlighted so far, particularly by the on-going public campaign. Residential outdoor activity centres have long been a vibrant feature of Scotland’s education system and an important jewel in the crown, but the pressures of the pandemic have reduced many of the centres to a precarious and fast-diminishing existence.

The rich experiences and skills gained through outdoor learning go far beyond the classroom. Young people learn to harness emotional, social and employability skills that they can use for a lifetime.

I am speaking as a former student of the Outward Bound Trust in Moray, an area that is known well to my colleague on my right, Edward Mountain. When I was a young lad, I was a general apprentice for J & P Coats and worked at its mills in Paisley. During that time, I spent four weeks at the Outward Bound school. Part of that organisation’s programme was to build our character. Every one of us—all 50 apprentices—were sent to the various schools around the United Kingdom. I drew the short straw. I was due to attend in May, but I was asked if I would go in January. If anyone knows what it is like in Burghead in January, they know exactly what one has to put up with. Nevertheless, I had a wonderful time.

I have memories of arriving at Elgin station, where I was met by the lorry from the Outward Bound Trust; of the last pint of beer being consumed before we left the station; and of the last cigarette going out the back of the truck. I was then confronted by a bunch of my team, who were police cadets, building site apprentices, young people in care, Royal Air Force cadets and more. Many members have already spoken about the life-changing opportunities that outdoor education provides, and, for me, it was a vital spark that helped to light my love of the environment, which continues now with my own children and their experiences. The value of such an offering in outdoor education cannot be overstated, but nor can the scale of the threat that the organisations that provide those services face.

The activities that we had were sailing in the Moray Firth, after breaking the ice in Hopeman harbour. There was running from Burghead to Hopeman, followed by diving into the pool at Gordonstoun to do our personal survival activities. There was rock climbing and abseiling, and we had debates and discussions in the evenings. That experience has stood me in extremely good stead throughout my career. I still think back to those days and the friends I made.

Ten years later, as a factory manager in Glasgow at our family’s drinks company, I sent one of our young managers on that very course. In those days, it was in Loch Eil. He went out a boy and came back a man—it was tremendous. There is a lot to be gained from such experiences.

The sea cadets, the army cadets and the air force cadets are close to my heart. We incorporate in our training two week-long camps per year. Those residential camps are crucial to the cadets’ development. We are lucky that we manage to fund that through our other means.

Under the current guidelines, the outdoor centres, which stand independently, can provide only day trips, but the lack of cost provision from schools and parents, coupled with the practicalities that are involved in organising travel to rural spots, has limited the uptake considerably. In any case, most centres are heavily dependent on residential visits for their income, which day trips alone are unable to provide.

Like Jamie Greene, I represent the region of West Scotland, which is home to quite a few of Scotland’s residential activity centres. One of them is Ocean Youth Trust Scotland, based in Greenock, which Liz Smith mentioned. It is a fantastic operation, and its voyages are really worth while going on. In the past, I considered sending one of my daughters on one of those to serve before the mast—seriously, she would have had a good time.

Ardmay House near Arrochar has provided residential activities for up to 2,500 children each year since it opened in 2003. However, like many other activity centres, Ardmay House has experienced the catastrophic impact on its business of the current situation. Unfortunately, it is not a rare case. The charity Children 1st drew my attention to another centre at Ardroy, which helps young people who are affected by mental health challenges, and their families, and supports children in their recovery from traumatic experiences.

Covid-19 has called for staff to be innovative and creative in how they deliver their services. The best alternative to keeping the sector running is to redeploy staff to work directly with schools and local authorities to deliver outdoor learning and to equip teachers to do the same, but that can be done only with financial assistance. The provision of such support is necessary to enable the sector not just to survive the current crisis, but to actively thrive.

Jamie Greene mentioned the outstanding Blairvadach outdoor centre, which is close to my home in Helensburgh. Fortunately, we managed to save it from closure by Glasgow City Council. I am glad that there was cross-party support for allowing it to continue its work. The team at Blairvadach worked to deliver outdoor learning to hub schools in Glasgow and has gone on to develop residential provision. Another prime example is the scouts centre at Lochgoilhead.

Efforts are being made to stop the closure of such outdoor residential centres by seeking help from the Government. I am being reminded to conclude. It is clear that financial support from the Scottish Government would be life-saving for the sector. I speak from personal experience when I say that we must not throw out the jewel in the crown. I have the experience of the Outward Bound Trust to my name.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22652, in the name of Liz Smith, on residential outdoor centres. The debate will...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank all the members who signed the motion and all those who will contribute to this evening’s debate. I open the debate with two personal experiences in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We have lots of speakers so I ask members to stick to speeches of no more than four minutes. Bruce Crawford will be followed by J...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am not now—for once I am not silent.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am pleased to hear it. Would you like to start again?
Bruce Crawford SNP
Thank you. I welcome the debate, and thank Liz Smith for bringing it to the chamber. The outdoor facilities under discussion have formed a small but importan...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the debate to the chamber. When she said that she had secured a members’ business debate, I was proactively pleased about part...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the se...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Corry. I am glad that it was only four weeks that you were there for; otherwise we might have been here a lot longer. 17:33
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I warmly welcome the debate and thank Liz Smith for securing it. Perhaps it represents a timely bridge between her previous portfolio responsibility for educ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liz Smith for allowing the debate to take place. From our time together on the Education and Skills Committee, I know that she has been a long-time a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quite a few more members would like to speak in the debate, so I am happy to accept a motion, under rule 8.14.3, that the debate be extended by up to 30 minu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour. 17:41
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not take up the full 30 minutes that you have just given us as an extension. Laughter. As other members have done, I de...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The expertise is not just in taking people rock climbing, canoeing and things such as Jeremy Balfour mentioned; it is also about dealing with children. That ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Mr Mountain has made a fair and good point. That expertise could disappear; staff might decide to go off and find jobs in other areas, so when centres reopen...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Liz Smith MSP for bringing the debate to Parliament and for her inspiring call to save our outdoor centres. Scotland’s residential outdoor centres h...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Liz Smith for lodging the motion for debate. I disagree with very little of what she said, and I welcome the consensual and non-party-political manne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all going a bit over the four minutes. I am worried that we are going to run out of time again. 17:56
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue. Glaisnock House, 1981, wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber. The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many w...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Richard Lochhead to respond to the debate for as long as he likes. 18:11
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Thank you for that prompt, Presiding Officer. The Covid-19 pandemic has led to a very significant challenge for the entire education system in Scotland, but...
Liz Smith Con
I could not agree with the minister more. He is echoing exactly what every member said. Given the cross-party agreement on this, is the minister minded to ac...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I will take that on board, and I am coming to some of the steps that we could take. There is no doubt that outdoor centres support learners’ health and well...
Jamie Greene Con
Apologies to Mr Wightman—I believe it was a race to stand up there. Notwithstanding the financial pressures that all Governments are facing and the funds t...
Richard Lochhead SNP
As the member is aware, outdoor centres operate under a number of different models. Some are run by local authorities, some are third sector, some are privat...