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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 September 2020

22 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Centres
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental sense.

At the start of the previous century, there was a transformation in thinking about the outdoors as it relates to education. Kurt Hahn and others led the way in arguing that the outdoors should not be something extra to education but should be core; that, by learning about the outdoors, one learns about resilience; and that—this is important—by learning about how to live in the outdoors, one gains a more holistic sense of learning than one does by merely learning in the classroom.

A hundred years later, it was a bold and important move to include those understandings in the curriculum for excellence, as Bruce Crawford stated. We may use different language from the words and phrases that were used by people 100 years ago, but the ideas of breadth and holistic learning are very much embedded in curriculum for excellence.

Outdoor learning should no longer be regarded as extracurricular but should be seen as core to the curriculum. The irony, given that we have only recently made that step forward and embedded the understandings that outdoor education is essential to learning and not peripheral to it, is that we now find that outdoor education and outdoor education centres are under threat.

The benefits of residential outdoor education are important to emphasise, and Liz Smith brought those to life in her remarks. We have all experienced the richness of learning through camping trips and hiking in the hills. It is through the application of knowledge of the outdoors that we learn a much broader set of skills—true life skills. Indeed, we now know the important role that being outdoors and learning about the outdoors have in mental health.

Critically, the curriculum for excellence says that there should be mixed provision and that outdoor education should not simply be provided by schools. That is why the crisis that the organisations face, with the potential loss of outdoor centres, is such a serious issue in terms of our ability to deliver outdoor education as a whole.

Let us be clear: this crisis is pronounced and it is serious. Some of the organisations are saying that facing another six months, let alone another 12 months of restrictions will cause them to be in crisis, leading to the loss of assets that have taken decades to build up.

The consequences are stark. We will lose skills. Staff are already being consulted about redundancy. Organisations are looking at closing centres in order to meet the costs that they have been unable to avoid through the months of lockdown.

Let us also be clear that the Scottish Government’s interventions have fallen short. I understand what Bruce Crawford said in his remarks—limitless finances are not available. However, let us also be clear that the third sector resilience fund fell short when it came to outdoor education organisations. When they made their applications, they were told that they did not qualify. We need the Scottish Government urgently either to look again at extending the schemes, or to come up with new schemes to provide the support that the organisations need, because, as Liz Smith put it, if we lose them, we will lose them for ever.

17:28  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22652, in the name of Liz Smith, on residential outdoor centres. The debate will...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank all the members who signed the motion and all those who will contribute to this evening’s debate. I open the debate with two personal experiences in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We have lots of speakers so I ask members to stick to speeches of no more than four minutes. Bruce Crawford will be followed by J...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am not now—for once I am not silent.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am pleased to hear it. Would you like to start again?
Bruce Crawford SNP
Thank you. I welcome the debate, and thank Liz Smith for bringing it to the chamber. The outdoor facilities under discussion have formed a small but importan...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the debate to the chamber. When she said that she had secured a members’ business debate, I was proactively pleased about part...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for securing the debate. The issue is a crucial one that will affect our ability to educate our young people in a fundamental ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank my colleague Liz Smith for leading the debate and for bringing it to the chamber. I join her in recognising the urgent challenges facing the se...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Corry. I am glad that it was only four weeks that you were there for; otherwise we might have been here a lot longer. 17:33
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I warmly welcome the debate and thank Liz Smith for securing it. Perhaps it represents a timely bridge between her previous portfolio responsibility for educ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Liz Smith for allowing the debate to take place. From our time together on the Education and Skills Committee, I know that she has been a long-time a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quite a few more members would like to speak in the debate, so I am happy to accept a motion, under rule 8.14.3, that the debate be extended by up to 30 minu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour. 17:41
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not take up the full 30 minutes that you have just given us as an extension. Laughter. As other members have done, I de...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The expertise is not just in taking people rock climbing, canoeing and things such as Jeremy Balfour mentioned; it is also about dealing with children. That ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Mr Mountain has made a fair and good point. That expertise could disappear; staff might decide to go off and find jobs in other areas, so when centres reopen...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Liz Smith MSP for bringing the debate to Parliament and for her inspiring call to save our outdoor centres. Scotland’s residential outdoor centres h...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Liz Smith for lodging the motion for debate. I disagree with very little of what she said, and I welcome the consensual and non-party-political manne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are all going a bit over the four minutes. I am worried that we are going to run out of time again. 17:56
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my congratulations to my colleague Liz Smith on securing time in the chamber for us to debate an incredibly important issue. Glaisnock House, 1981, wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I echo the thanks to Liz Smith for bringing this incredibly important issue to the chamber. The announcement today that the easing of lockdown has in many w...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank Liz Smith for giving us the opportunity to discuss the threat that faces Scotland’s fantastic residential outdoor centres and the threat to the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Richard Lochhead to respond to the debate for as long as he likes. 18:11
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Thank you for that prompt, Presiding Officer. The Covid-19 pandemic has led to a very significant challenge for the entire education system in Scotland, but...
Liz Smith Con
I could not agree with the minister more. He is echoing exactly what every member said. Given the cross-party agreement on this, is the minister minded to ac...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I will take that on board, and I am coming to some of the steps that we could take. There is no doubt that outdoor centres support learners’ health and well...
Jamie Greene Con
Apologies to Mr Wightman—I believe it was a race to stand up there. Notwithstanding the financial pressures that all Governments are facing and the funds t...
Richard Lochhead SNP
As the member is aware, outdoor centres operate under a number of different models. Some are run by local authorities, some are third sector, some are privat...