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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 08 September 2020

08 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Baroness Cumberlege Report

I begin by pointing members to my register of interests, specifically my interest in healthcare technologies.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on Baroness Cumberlege’s report. This is not the first time that the Parliament has debated polypropylene mesh implants and the devastating impact that their use has had on so many patients. My remarks will be focused on that.

I was a member of the Public Petitions Committee and it will be hard for me to forget the harrowing evidence that that committee took, along with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport and the chief medical officer. That session will not leave me, not even long after I have left the Parliament. I can still vividly picture the discomfort of those who were giving evidence. So many of the sufferers—many in wheelchairs—were sitting behind the witnesses and reacting to every question and answer. The discomfort of those giving evidence was because there was little that could have been said to justify why more had not been done to alleviate the suffering, or to prevent future suffering, of so many. Actions that could and should have been taken swiftly had just not been implemented. The reality was that there were no excuses.

I pay tribute to those who have campaigned and lobbied so passionately. Others have mentioned Elaine Holmes and Olive McIlroy for bringing the petition to Parliament in 2014.

As members said, MSPs of all parties have been instrumental in keeping this travesty on the agenda. Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil joined members of the Public Petitions Committee for every evidence session on the mesh petition and were vociferous in cross-examining the witnesses.

There has been undoubted progress, but the journey is far from over, which is why I ask the Parliament to support the Scottish Conservative amendment in the name of Jackson Carlaw, which calls for mesh removal surgery to be undertaken

“by surgeons who enjoy the full confidence of the women affected, fully funded by the NHS.”

Alex Neil spoke well to that point, which, surely is the least that the women can expect. The Scottish Government must try to secure the services of the mesh removal specialist Dr Veronikis. It is baffling to the campaigners that that has not already been done.

Let us remember that the petition was brought to the Parliament in 2014, six years ago. We have heard how the then Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing, Alex Neil, called for a moratorium on the use of mesh in Scotland’s health boards, in the belief that that would halt the use of the procedure while further evidence was taken. I know that he was as shocked as we were to find out that the moratorium was not binding and several health boards had continued with the procedure regardless. There is a lesson for the Parliament there. A cabinet secretary can make what is undeniably the right decision to protect public health, unaware that his decision can be overruled without his knowledge.

It is poignant that the report that we are debating is entitled “First Do No Harm”, considering how mesh surgery and other treatments that are mentioned in it have been deployed. As my colleague Donald Cameron said, the report falls short of recommending an outright ban on the use of mesh implants but suggests that such implants should be used as a last resort and only after other treatments have been fully explored.

Just as important is how patients are engaged in adverse event reviews, which has to change. I have raised the issue in this Parliament many times in the context of other events, such as childbirth mortality. The appointment of a patient safety commissioner seems to be a logical way to promote the importance of listening to and learning from patients’ experiences, and it is good to hear the Scottish Government’s commitment to the approach.

The report highlights the need for a substantial review of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. I have to say that the MHRA’s engagement with the Public Petitions Committee was far from satisfactory. I look forward to the review.

Another recommendation of the report is:

“A central patient-identifiable database should be created by collecting key details of the implantation of all devices at the time of the operation.”

Members have called for accessible data in healthcare on many occasions. The development of an IT platform that enables the use of accessible data in healthcare is necessary if we are to make significant progress. We are behind the curve, which makes mistakes such as we are considering harder to identify and they then take longer to investigate. Accessible data is a prerequisite in so many issues that face our healthcare system.

In many ways, Scotland has been at the forefront of the drive to change how mesh is presented as a solution for patients—and the petitioners have been at the forefront, too. However, it is fair to say that the Scottish Government has been a little lethargic at best. It is worth pointing out that we have had three health secretaries in those six years. Since Alex Neil took what looked like decisive action and called for a moratorium on the procedure, the Scottish Government seems to have been reluctant to respond with urgency.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22635, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the Baroness Cumberlege report. I invite all members who wish to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I start by welcoming the independent medicines and medical devices safety review—the Cumberlege report—and the opportunity in this Government debate to discu...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
How many mesh women have been involved in the co-production and co-design of that service?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I was about to move on to that. Through the involvement of the Health and Social Care Alliance, which was actively involved in canvassing women’s views and w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will in a moment. That will be in place as soon as those centres are established and will provide the opportunity to support advances in knowledge, techni...
Neil Findlay Lab
There is a multitude of questions about that service. The women themselves are asking those questions. They do not have faith in the way that the service has...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I accept the core of what Mr Findlay says about the importance of women having faith in the specialist service. Undoubtedly, one of the harms that has been d...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I highlight my entry in the register of members’ interests on an interest in health technologies. I am grateful for the opportunity to open for the Scottish...
Neil Findlay Lab
Is it not an indication of the extent of the scandal that, when Alex Neil did implement a suspension, health boards continued to implant mesh in another 1,00...
Donald Cameron Con
I accept that there were issues around that. However, my point is that three MSPs from different political parties getting together to play a role in getting...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Cameron acknowledge that, as far as the Scottish Government and I, as the cabinet secretary, are concerned, the offer to Dr Veronikis remains open? T...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I have a copy of a letter that was sent to the cabinet secretary six days ago. She has made no reference to it in he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Mr Findlay, I see from my list that you have been put forward to open for Labour in the debate, so that will be your opportunity to contribute to the debate ...
Donald Cameron Con
Scottish Mesh Survivors has been clear; it took a firm view about the services of Dr Veronikis and the need for him to take action. Our amendment makes it c...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Baroness Cumberlege for her excellent report. It stands in stark contrast to the discredited sham of a review that was conducted in Scotland a few ye...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does the member accept that, in response to those situations, we have established an independent case review that will, using senior clinicians from outwith ...
Neil Findlay Lab
No. I am asking whether members would trust a surgeon who had caused such devastation to their lives to be the person to remove the mesh. I certainly would n...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I know that all members will wish to pay tribute to all the people who have been affected by the failings in our health system as listed in the review. They ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member accept that, given that the pressure for a suspension has come from the women themselves, it would be wise to pause for the questions to be a...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes—many questions regarding the service remain, and I have some sympathy with the suggestion that there should be a temporary suspension to ensure that ther...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, recognise the work of Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil on this issue. It has spanned my entire career in Parliament and has been awe inspir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We will now move to the open debate. We are already way over time and later contributions may have to be curtailed. Meanwhile, speeches should be up to six m...
Alex Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) SNP
There are very few issues that unite all five parties in the Parliament, but all three issues that the Cumberlege report addresses significantly add to that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Could you come to a close, please.
Alex Neil SNP
Finally, the patient decision aid should be used much more widely. Although MHRA reform is a reserved matter, all devolved governments should be heavily invo...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by pointing members to my register of interests, specifically my interest in healthcare technologies. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Whittle cannot take an intervention; he is just closing.
Brian Whittle Con
Six years is too long. If the Covid crisis has taught us anything, it is that if there is a will, moves can be made swiftly. It is time that the women who su...