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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 08 September 2020

08 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Baroness Cumberlege Report

I know that all members will wish to pay tribute to all the people who have been affected by the failings in our health system as listed in the review. They did what their health service failed to do—they supported one another and fought for years, sometimes decades—to have their stories heard. I hope that the Cumberlege report has been the cause of some relief to them, but it should never have come to this.

I would like to focus on the issues that I highlighted in my amendment. I should say that my amendment has been selected alongside the amendments of two of the three “meshketeers”—that is the name that has been given to Neil Findlay, Jackson Carlaw and Alex Neil by the Scottish mesh survivors. The fact that those incredible campaigning women are still able to employ humour tells us so much about their spirit; it also shows how grateful they are to each of those members for their consistent, on-going determined and vocal support. I think that it is fair to say that few women would ever imagine that they would share their most intimate health problems with men who were neither physicians nor partners.

I want to focus on the issues that I highlighted in my amendment. We cannot ignore the fact that the scandals that were examined in the review specifically affect women. Its findings speak to a larger culture of silence around women’s pain and discomfort. It should not be news to anyone here that that pain is still being normalised and dismissed as “women’s problems”. How many times in the chamber have we discussed the stigma around periods and the menopause? Despite that, the review highlights instances in which women were told that their symptoms were just “part of that time of life”. Aside from the fact that that was obviously not the case, why are women continually expected to simply put up with distressing symptoms because it is part of being a woman? When will women be listened to and, more important, believed?

It is clear to me, having read the review report, that the ways in which women are disadvantaged when accessing the health service played a significant part in the scandals. The report states:

“the whole pharmaceutical and devices regulatory systems have been criticised as being sub-optimal for women.”

We need to recognise how issues such as race intersect with this. The 2019 report by MBRRACE-UK found that

“black women are five times more likely to die as a result of complications in their pregnancy than white women.”

The risk for Asian and mixed-race women was twofold and threefold respectively. We need to acknowledge the barriers that all women face when accessing healthcare in Scotland. That is the key to ensuring that women such as the mesh survivors are never again forced to battle for years just to be heard.

Like many other members, I met the mesh survivors when they came to the Parliament in 2017. I will never forget meeting them, in that small room on the ground floor, off the garden lobby. The room was too small for those who had made the huge effort to come here to their Parliament to share their shocking personal details with their representatives. That group of women had undergone surgery to address incontinence and found themselves requiring crutches and wheelchairs. One woman and her husband described her 24-hour-a-day incontinence. I cannot imagine the impact that that will have had on their lives—not just the physical limitations, but the impact on their independence, mental health, self-esteem and self-confidence.

Like other colleagues, I met women who had been forced to leave their jobs—really important jobs—who could no longer look after a loved one, or who were heartbroken because they could no longer lift up their grandchildren. They were women of different ages and backgrounds, who banded together and supported one another at a time of great physical and mental distress. Their persistence and bravery are truly awe-inspiring, but they should never have had to fight that battle, and it certainly should not have taken this long.

The mesh survivors have had to deal with unimaginable pain, loss of career and income and impacts on family relationships—and imagine having to campaign relentlessly at a time when your focus should be solely on your health. I am sure that we all agree that no one should ever again have to go to such lengths to be listened to, and that every women affected should have access to the support and treatment that are required to bring about the most optimal health outcome possible.

We need a complex mesh removal surgical service for women experiencing complications following vaginal mesh implants, given the trauma that the women have experienced as a result of their pain and their struggle to be listened to. Psychological support has to be an important part of that service, too.

There must be a rebuilding of trust between the women affected and the health service. Many women will, understandably, be very wary of being treated by the same clinicians who implanted the mesh in the first instance.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22635, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the Baroness Cumberlege report. I invite all members who wish to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I start by welcoming the independent medicines and medical devices safety review—the Cumberlege report—and the opportunity in this Government debate to discu...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
How many mesh women have been involved in the co-production and co-design of that service?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I was about to move on to that. Through the involvement of the Health and Social Care Alliance, which was actively involved in canvassing women’s views and w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will in a moment. That will be in place as soon as those centres are established and will provide the opportunity to support advances in knowledge, techni...
Neil Findlay Lab
There is a multitude of questions about that service. The women themselves are asking those questions. They do not have faith in the way that the service has...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I accept the core of what Mr Findlay says about the importance of women having faith in the specialist service. Undoubtedly, one of the harms that has been d...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I highlight my entry in the register of members’ interests on an interest in health technologies. I am grateful for the opportunity to open for the Scottish...
Neil Findlay Lab
Is it not an indication of the extent of the scandal that, when Alex Neil did implement a suspension, health boards continued to implant mesh in another 1,00...
Donald Cameron Con
I accept that there were issues around that. However, my point is that three MSPs from different political parties getting together to play a role in getting...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Cameron acknowledge that, as far as the Scottish Government and I, as the cabinet secretary, are concerned, the offer to Dr Veronikis remains open? T...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I have a copy of a letter that was sent to the cabinet secretary six days ago. She has made no reference to it in he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Mr Findlay, I see from my list that you have been put forward to open for Labour in the debate, so that will be your opportunity to contribute to the debate ...
Donald Cameron Con
Scottish Mesh Survivors has been clear; it took a firm view about the services of Dr Veronikis and the need for him to take action. Our amendment makes it c...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Baroness Cumberlege for her excellent report. It stands in stark contrast to the discredited sham of a review that was conducted in Scotland a few ye...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does the member accept that, in response to those situations, we have established an independent case review that will, using senior clinicians from outwith ...
Neil Findlay Lab
No. I am asking whether members would trust a surgeon who had caused such devastation to their lives to be the person to remove the mesh. I certainly would n...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I know that all members will wish to pay tribute to all the people who have been affected by the failings in our health system as listed in the review. They ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member accept that, given that the pressure for a suspension has come from the women themselves, it would be wise to pause for the questions to be a...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes—many questions regarding the service remain, and I have some sympathy with the suggestion that there should be a temporary suspension to ensure that ther...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, recognise the work of Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil on this issue. It has spanned my entire career in Parliament and has been awe inspir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We will now move to the open debate. We are already way over time and later contributions may have to be curtailed. Meanwhile, speeches should be up to six m...
Alex Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) SNP
There are very few issues that unite all five parties in the Parliament, but all three issues that the Cumberlege report addresses significantly add to that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Could you come to a close, please.
Alex Neil SNP
Finally, the patient decision aid should be used much more widely. Although MHRA reform is a reserved matter, all devolved governments should be heavily invo...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by pointing members to my register of interests, specifically my interest in healthcare technologies. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Whittle cannot take an intervention; he is just closing.
Brian Whittle Con
Six years is too long. If the Covid crisis has taught us anything, it is that if there is a will, moves can be made swiftly. It is time that the women who su...