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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 08 September 2020

08 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Baroness Cumberlege Report

No. I am asking whether members would trust a surgeon who had caused such devastation to their lives to be the person to remove the mesh. I certainly would not, and I know that half of the women who responded to a survey said that they would not, either.

The Cumberlege report cites multiple systematic failings resulting in life-changing harm and makes nine recommendations. I am pleased that the cabinet secretary has confirmed that the Government will implement all the recommendations where it has the power to do so. That is a major step forward, and I welcome it. However, I have to say that mesh-injured women have huge questions about the new mesh service that is being established.

As far as I know, none of the members of the Scottish Mesh Survivors group has been involved in the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland project—and I have been receiving texts from members of that group as we have been speaking today. They have questions. Who is going to staff the service? Will it be the same clinicians in whom women have lost all confidence? I am advised that it will be. What removal techniques will be used? Will they be the same ones that have caused even more damage to some women who have already had partial mesh removals? What accredited training have those who will staff the service had?

The service evaluation that was handed to the First Minister in November 2019 confirms that all of the women who have had partial mesh removal surgery in Scotland continue to suffer chronic pain and that half of those surveyed did not undergo removal surgery because they do not trust the service. The service’s only published research confirms that surgeons did not do total mesh removal but thought that they had—they thought that they had taken it all out, but they had not.

How can the service be allowed to carry out surgery when surgeons cannot do safe total removal? Why did the lead clinicians fail to engage with Dr Veronikis when he offered help, advice and learning? What happened to the patient information leaflet? That decision-making aid was developed by Dr Agur and Scottish mesh-injured women and was sent to the First Minister in November 2019, but it still has not been introduced across the board a year later.

Why are mesh-injured patients being denied access to the multidisciplinary team meetings that are held to discuss their health and their cases? They are being denied access to those meetings. It is not for surgeons to tell women what they can and cannot have. Even if the clinician’s preference is to leave an implant in, women must have autonomy of choice over what happens to their health and their body.

Why have only a hand-picked few been involved in the design of the service? None of the Scottish mesh-injured women from the group that has campaigned so vigorously here has been involved in the design process. If the service continues in the same way it is setting itself up to fail from the outset, and it would be a crying shame if that were allowed to happen.

The development of the service must be suspended at this point until all those questions are answered; if that happens, we might be able to move forward. I make a plea to the cabinet secretary: do not waste public money on the service when there are so many question marks hanging over it. There are people out there who are desperate for help, but they will not go to the service under the current circumstances.

The NHS guidance says:

“In very rare circumstances, consideration will be given to funding referral to a highly specialised care provider in an internationally recognised unit overseas.”

This is a unique set of circumstances: patients have been abandoned by the system for 20 years, there is an unprecedented scandal around implants and there has been a failure to commission full safe removal. The First Minister and the health secretary have recognised the very rare circumstances of the scandal. They recognised that international help was needed—hence the contact with Dr Veronikis. It is unprecedented that Alex Neil’s suspension of the use of mesh, which followed the work of the Parliament’s petitions system, remains in place. There is also an unprecedented level of mistrust in the surgical community and what skills the members of that community might or might not have. They are entrenched in a legacy of a failure to adhere to the principle that is central to their oath: first, do no harm.

We are talking about a massive global female health scandal, and there is now only one credible option that respects the autonomy of the women concerned, that recognises the unique set of circumstances that they are in and that will instil confidence in them—to allow, without further delay, the NHS to finance travel abroad or within the UK, if the right service can be found, to receive treatment from a surgeon of their choice. They must have autonomy. These women are heroes and they deserve nothing less.

Let us remember all those who have died too young of mesh-related illnesses. Today, especially, let us remember Mrs Eileen Baxter, who was the first woman to have mesh identified on her death certificate as a contributory factor. God bless her and her family, who continue to fight in her memory.

I move amendment S5M-22635.3, to insert after “Commissioner”:

“; calls on the Scottish Government to commit to the implementation of all of the recommendations of the report over which it has power; urges it to halt the development of the new specialist mesh service until it confirms who will be carrying out procedures at these centres, what training they have had and whether this is credible, whether any of the surgeons are proficient in carrying out full mesh removal procedures, that patient decision aids have been introduced and that representatives of mesh-injured women have been involved in the design of the service”.

15:07  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22635, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the Baroness Cumberlege report. I invite all members who wish to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I start by welcoming the independent medicines and medical devices safety review—the Cumberlege report—and the opportunity in this Government debate to discu...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
How many mesh women have been involved in the co-production and co-design of that service?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I was about to move on to that. Through the involvement of the Health and Social Care Alliance, which was actively involved in canvassing women’s views and w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will in a moment. That will be in place as soon as those centres are established and will provide the opportunity to support advances in knowledge, techni...
Neil Findlay Lab
There is a multitude of questions about that service. The women themselves are asking those questions. They do not have faith in the way that the service has...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I accept the core of what Mr Findlay says about the importance of women having faith in the specialist service. Undoubtedly, one of the harms that has been d...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I highlight my entry in the register of members’ interests on an interest in health technologies. I am grateful for the opportunity to open for the Scottish...
Neil Findlay Lab
Is it not an indication of the extent of the scandal that, when Alex Neil did implement a suspension, health boards continued to implant mesh in another 1,00...
Donald Cameron Con
I accept that there were issues around that. However, my point is that three MSPs from different political parties getting together to play a role in getting...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Cameron acknowledge that, as far as the Scottish Government and I, as the cabinet secretary, are concerned, the offer to Dr Veronikis remains open? T...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I have a copy of a letter that was sent to the cabinet secretary six days ago. She has made no reference to it in he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Mr Findlay, I see from my list that you have been put forward to open for Labour in the debate, so that will be your opportunity to contribute to the debate ...
Donald Cameron Con
Scottish Mesh Survivors has been clear; it took a firm view about the services of Dr Veronikis and the need for him to take action. Our amendment makes it c...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Baroness Cumberlege for her excellent report. It stands in stark contrast to the discredited sham of a review that was conducted in Scotland a few ye...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does the member accept that, in response to those situations, we have established an independent case review that will, using senior clinicians from outwith ...
Neil Findlay Lab
No. I am asking whether members would trust a surgeon who had caused such devastation to their lives to be the person to remove the mesh. I certainly would n...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I know that all members will wish to pay tribute to all the people who have been affected by the failings in our health system as listed in the review. They ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member accept that, given that the pressure for a suspension has come from the women themselves, it would be wise to pause for the questions to be a...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes—many questions regarding the service remain, and I have some sympathy with the suggestion that there should be a temporary suspension to ensure that ther...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, recognise the work of Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil on this issue. It has spanned my entire career in Parliament and has been awe inspir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We will now move to the open debate. We are already way over time and later contributions may have to be curtailed. Meanwhile, speeches should be up to six m...
Alex Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) SNP
There are very few issues that unite all five parties in the Parliament, but all three issues that the Cumberlege report addresses significantly add to that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Could you come to a close, please.
Alex Neil SNP
Finally, the patient decision aid should be used much more widely. Although MHRA reform is a reserved matter, all devolved governments should be heavily invo...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by pointing members to my register of interests, specifically my interest in healthcare technologies. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Whittle cannot take an intervention; he is just closing.
Brian Whittle Con
Six years is too long. If the Covid crisis has taught us anything, it is that if there is a will, moves can be made swiftly. It is time that the women who su...