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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 08 September 2020

08 Sep 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Baroness Cumberlege Report
Cameron, Donald Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Scottish Mesh Survivors has been clear; it took a firm view about the services of Dr Veronikis and the need for him to take action.

Our amendment makes it clear that, for the women who have had mesh implants and require removal surgery, such surgery must be

“undertaken by surgeons who enjoy the full confidence of the women affected”.

That is the issue—it is about confidence. That surgery must be fully funded by the NHS. It is no less than the women deserve. We hope that the Scottish Government recognises that and will support our amendment.

It is also worth remembering the people with conditions other than pelvic organ prolapse and stress urinary incontinence who have suffered from mesh implants. At the end of 2018, the Sunday Post reported the stories of patients—male and female—who had received mesh implants during hernia operations. One patient described the pain following the treatment as “agonising”, and like

“being strangled from the inside”,

so it is clear that that particular material has had wide-ranging effects and has caused untold damage to many lives.

The Cumberlege report is clear about use of mesh to treat POP and SUI. Although it stops short of calling for an overall ban on its use, it says that

“women must be able to make a fully-informed decision based on clear and unbiased information—the benefits, the risks, the alternatives, and doing nothing”

and that mesh treatment should be

“considered as a last-line option after conservative non-surgical options, and after consideration of non-mesh surgery”.

The report also covers two other significant areas of public health failings, namely the use of Primodos and other hormone pregnancy tests, and the use of sodium valproate for treatment of epilepsy and bipolar disorder, with emphasis on its effects during pregnancy. Although the report provides significant detail, in both cases it is the personal experiences of those who have suffered from the treatments that are most sobering. Their stories are heartbreaking, and are just some of the many accounts that were noted in the report.

Two of the key themes throughout many of the stories are the lack of information being given to patients about potential side effects of the treatments, and the manner in which patients were ignored by clinicians when they raised their concerns. Those were not one-off failings, or failings that could be attributed to a particular hospital or general practice. Rather, they were indicative of a clear system-wide failure.

The report argues that

“The influence of patients within the NHS and the overall delivery of healthcare needs to be increased to balance the authority both directly and indirectly of those we call stakeholders in the healthcare system”.

The report also notes that the consequence of failing to listen to patients often leads to patients feeling

“vulnerable and ... unable to challenge and question. The patient is ignored and feels belittled.”

The report terms this theme “The patient voice dismissed”. That is a damning indictment. It is clearly vital that that be improved, so I hope that the appointment of a patient safety commissioner can go some way towards achieving that outcome.

I have merely scratched the surface of the detailed report. I proffer the thanks of Conservative members to Baroness Cumberlege and her team for their tireless work in putting the report together.

It is clear that, here in Scotland, some immediate steps have already been taken, and we welcome and support those steps. However, in the case of the many women who continue to seek mesh removal treatment, their fight continues. In Scotland, we can make a difference, if we have the resolve to do so.

I move amendment S5M-22635.1, to insert at end,

“, and believes that this must include the early prospect of full transvaginal mesh removal surgery being undertaken by surgeons who enjoy the full confidence of the women affected, fully funded by the NHS.”

14:59  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-22635, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the Baroness Cumberlege report. I invite all members who wish to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I start by welcoming the independent medicines and medical devices safety review—the Cumberlege report—and the opportunity in this Government debate to discu...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
How many mesh women have been involved in the co-production and co-design of that service?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I was about to move on to that. Through the involvement of the Health and Social Care Alliance, which was actively involved in canvassing women’s views and w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will in a moment. That will be in place as soon as those centres are established and will provide the opportunity to support advances in knowledge, techni...
Neil Findlay Lab
There is a multitude of questions about that service. The women themselves are asking those questions. They do not have faith in the way that the service has...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I accept the core of what Mr Findlay says about the importance of women having faith in the specialist service. Undoubtedly, one of the harms that has been d...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I highlight my entry in the register of members’ interests on an interest in health technologies. I am grateful for the opportunity to open for the Scottish...
Neil Findlay Lab
Is it not an indication of the extent of the scandal that, when Alex Neil did implement a suspension, health boards continued to implant mesh in another 1,00...
Donald Cameron Con
I accept that there were issues around that. However, my point is that three MSPs from different political parties getting together to play a role in getting...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Cameron acknowledge that, as far as the Scottish Government and I, as the cabinet secretary, are concerned, the offer to Dr Veronikis remains open? T...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I have a copy of a letter that was sent to the cabinet secretary six days ago. She has made no reference to it in he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Mr Findlay, I see from my list that you have been put forward to open for Labour in the debate, so that will be your opportunity to contribute to the debate ...
Donald Cameron Con
Scottish Mesh Survivors has been clear; it took a firm view about the services of Dr Veronikis and the need for him to take action. Our amendment makes it c...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Baroness Cumberlege for her excellent report. It stands in stark contrast to the discredited sham of a review that was conducted in Scotland a few ye...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does the member accept that, in response to those situations, we have established an independent case review that will, using senior clinicians from outwith ...
Neil Findlay Lab
No. I am asking whether members would trust a surgeon who had caused such devastation to their lives to be the person to remove the mesh. I certainly would n...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I know that all members will wish to pay tribute to all the people who have been affected by the failings in our health system as listed in the review. They ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member accept that, given that the pressure for a suspension has come from the women themselves, it would be wise to pause for the questions to be a...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes—many questions regarding the service remain, and I have some sympathy with the suggestion that there should be a temporary suspension to ensure that ther...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, recognise the work of Jackson Carlaw, Neil Findlay and Alex Neil on this issue. It has spanned my entire career in Parliament and has been awe inspir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We will now move to the open debate. We are already way over time and later contributions may have to be curtailed. Meanwhile, speeches should be up to six m...
Alex Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) SNP
There are very few issues that unite all five parties in the Parliament, but all three issues that the Cumberlege report addresses significantly add to that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Could you come to a close, please.
Alex Neil SNP
Finally, the patient decision aid should be used much more widely. Although MHRA reform is a reserved matter, all devolved governments should be heavily invo...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by pointing members to my register of interests, specifically my interest in healthcare technologies. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Whittle cannot take an intervention; he is just closing.
Brian Whittle Con
Six years is too long. If the Covid crisis has taught us anything, it is that if there is a will, moves can be made swiftly. It is time that the women who su...