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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 August 2020

25 Aug 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Regan, Ash SNP Edinburgh Eastern Watch on SPTV

The Scottish Government does not support many amendments in group 5.

Amendment 40, in the name of Liam MacArthur, would allow only social workers who were registered with the Scottish Social Services Council to be child welfare reporters. My officials have spoken to a number of key organisations that have expressed concern about the amendment.

Around 90 per cent of child welfare reporters are lawyers and I remain unconvinced that there is a justification for limiting that role to social workers. In my view, the most important factor for any child welfare reporter is that they meet the required standards in training and qualifications, regardless of their professional background.

Amendment 40 would also exclude child psychologists, child psychiatrists and other family support workers—who may have the necessary qualifications and experience to be a child welfare reporter—unless they were also social workers.

It would also exclude retired social workers, who may also have the required skills to act as a child welfare reporter. It is also not clear whether the social work sector has the capacity to take the role on. Capacity issues could lead to delays in producing child welfare reports, which could, in turn, delay the case overall. That would not be in the best interests of the child concerned.

I am, however, keen to encourage more non-lawyers to become child welfare reporters, as diversity of experience in the role of child welfare reporter would be beneficial to the process. I give the member my assurance that those considerations will be taken into account as the regulations on child welfare reporters are developed.

As regards amendment 1, in the name of Neil Findlay, an identical amendment was not supported by the Justice Committee at stage 2 and it remains unclear to me what the amendment is intended to do. If a person has the requisite skills and experience to be included on the register of child welfare reporters, then they can be included on that register. I am not clear how the person’s professional knowledge of a particular child can be relevant to the question whether a person could be registered as a child welfare reporter generally.

I take the member’s point that a professional who has already worked with a child may be well placed to write a child welfare report in relation to that child, although it should not be overlooked that there might also be cases in which the child or other members of the family might have a strong preference that somebody new is brought in to do that. The issue that the legislation is dealing with is not who will write a report in relation to a specific child but who can be registered to be a child welfare reporter. It would obviously be unworkable to have a system under which, in effect, there would be a separate register of child welfare reporters for every child in relation to whom a child welfare report might ever need to be produced.

For the reasons outlined, I remain unable to support amendment 1 and urge members to reject it.

Regarding amendment 2, however, I see the point that Neil Findlay is making. When consulting on draft regulations, any Government will of course need to ensure that people with lived experience of court-ordered contact and domestic abuse give us their valuable insights. I am therefore happy to support amendment 2.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Children (Scotland) Bill. Members should have before them the bill as amended at stage 2, the marshal...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 1 is on the voice of the child. Amendment 8, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 35, 12 to 16, 31 and 48.
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
The amendments in my name seek to strengthen the bill to ensure that the child’s views are heard in family court cases and children’s hearings. That is one o...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
At stage 2, as the minister and members of the committee will recall, I did not move my amendments that sought to maintain the child’s right to maintain pers...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
As I have done throughout the committee stages of the bill, I begin by declaring an interest in that my wife is a director of Relationships Scotland Orkney. ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I remind members that I am a practising solicitor and hold current practising certificates with the Law Society of Scotland and the Law Society of England an...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour will support all the amendments in group 1. The Government amendments, lodged by Ash Denham, build on amendments that I lodged at stage 2 in...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I support the Government’s amendments 8 and 12 to 16 and Liam McArthur’s amendment 48. As a member of the Justice Committee, I was clear from the get-go that...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I join other members in supporting all the amendments in the group, except for Mr Cole-Hamilton’s amendment 35, for many of the reasons that have been outlin...
Ash Denham SNP
The bill already makes provision for the views of the child to be sought in a range of contexts, and it requires the court to take account of “the child’s im...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 2 is on matters to be considered in making an order under section 11(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. Amendment 9, in the name of Rhoda Grant, i...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Amendment 9 is a technical amendment, which would remove a definition that is no longer required in the bill. Amendment 10 would amend new section 11ZA(3)(e...
Liam McArthur LD
Amendment 26 seeks to make equally shared parenting the starting basis for custody orders, but it would not prevent courts from then deciding on the most app...
John Finnie Green
The member will be aware of the position that was adopted in relation to other matters in which it would be unhelpful to have a list. Is what he seeks to do ...
Liam McArthur LD
John Finnie is right to point to the evidence that we took and some of the considerations that we weighed up during stages 1 and 2. As I said, given how rar...
Liam Kerr Con
I am happy to vote for all the amendments in the group, with the exception of Liam McArthur’s amendment 26. Again, I understand the motivation behind the am...
James Kelly Lab
I support Rhoda Grant’s sensible amendments, which would bring more consistency to the bill as amended at stage 2. I, too, oppose Liam McArthur’s amendment 2...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I do not support amendment 26, because I consider that it could have adverse consequences for child safety. In an ideal world, it is preferable for a child ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I want to express my sympathy for Liam McArthur’s amendment 26. Over the years, I have had many constituents and, in fact, others from outwith my constituenc...
Ash Denham SNP
I support amendments 9, 10 and 11, and I am grateful to Rhoda Grant for the constructive engagement that we have had on the subject. Those amendments make te...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Members will all have dealt with cases in which contact has been used to perpetrate abuse, with disastrous consequences for the abused partner and their chil...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 3 is on the disclosure of information. Amendment 36, in the name of Liam McArthur, is grouped with amendment 46.
Liam McArthur LD
Amendment 36 and my more substantive amendment 46 respond to concerns that were raised with the committee at stage 1 that, at present, intimate and highly se...
Liam Kerr Con
We will vote against both amendments in the group. Amendment 36 is a function of amendment 46, so I will deal with the latter in depth. Our vote against amen...
Ash Denham SNP
I support amendments 36 and 46. I am grateful to Liam McArthur for the constructive engagement that we have had on the subject, and I am pleased that a conse...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank the minister for her support and her explanation of the basis for it. I thank Liam Kerr for his comments and for engaging in debate on my amendments....
The Presiding Officer NPA
The question is, that amendment 36 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. As this is the first division of the afternoon, I will suspend proceedings and we will have a short technical break, not only to su...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Colleagues, we are going to resume proceedings. We are on group 3, on disclosure of information, and Liam McArthur has moved amendment 36. Members indicated...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division is: For 86, Against 30, Abstentions 1. Amendment 36 agreed to.