Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 August 2020
25 Aug 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I thank the minister for her support and her explanation of the basis for it. I thank Liam Kerr for his comments and for engaging in debate on my amendments. I would never accuse him of semantics. To some extent, the language that is used in my amendments is similar to the language that was used in the amendment that I lodged at stage 2. I do not recall his concerns being raised at that stage. The minister has set out the consistency of approach that has been taken. It is difficult to see how a child’s best interests would not be observed by any measure that adhered to the child’s welfare. The language is embedded in the UNCRC.
I take the point that a fuller integration of the UNCRC into Scots law is proposed, but that is not a justification for kicking the can down the road where there is an opportunity to embed the provision in this bill. Those who gave evidence to the committee were clear about the importance of doing so, not least—as I said earlier—to safeguard the confidence of children and young people in, and their engagement with, third sector organisations at a time of real vulnerability for them. For those reasons, I will press amendment 36.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh)
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Children (Scotland) Bill. Members should have before them the bill as amended at stage 2, the marshal...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Group 1 is on the voice of the child. Amendment 8, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 35, 12 to 16, 31 and 48.
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham)
SNP
The amendments in my name seek to strengthen the bill to ensure that the child’s views are heard in family court cases and children’s hearings. That is one o...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
At stage 2, as the minister and members of the committee will recall, I did not move my amendments that sought to maintain the child’s right to maintain pers...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
As I have done throughout the committee stages of the bill, I begin by declaring an interest in that my wife is a director of Relationships Scotland Orkney. ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I remind members that I am a practising solicitor and hold current practising certificates with the Law Society of Scotland and the Law Society of England an...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Scottish Labour will support all the amendments in group 1. The Government amendments, lodged by Ash Denham, build on amendments that I lodged at stage 2 in...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
I support the Government’s amendments 8 and 12 to 16 and Liam McArthur’s amendment 48. As a member of the Justice Committee, I was clear from the get-go that...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Green
I join other members in supporting all the amendments in the group, except for Mr Cole-Hamilton’s amendment 35, for many of the reasons that have been outlin...
Ash Denham
SNP
The bill already makes provision for the views of the child to be sought in a range of contexts, and it requires the court to take account of “the child’s im...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Group 2 is on matters to be considered in making an order under section 11(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. Amendment 9, in the name of Rhoda Grant, i...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Amendment 9 is a technical amendment, which would remove a definition that is no longer required in the bill. Amendment 10 would amend new section 11ZA(3)(e...
Liam McArthur
LD
Amendment 26 seeks to make equally shared parenting the starting basis for custody orders, but it would not prevent courts from then deciding on the most app...
John Finnie
Green
The member will be aware of the position that was adopted in relation to other matters in which it would be unhelpful to have a list. Is what he seeks to do ...
Liam McArthur
LD
John Finnie is right to point to the evidence that we took and some of the considerations that we weighed up during stages 1 and 2. As I said, given how rar...
Liam Kerr
Con
I am happy to vote for all the amendments in the group, with the exception of Liam McArthur’s amendment 26. Again, I understand the motivation behind the am...
James Kelly
Lab
I support Rhoda Grant’s sensible amendments, which would bring more consistency to the bill as amended at stage 2. I, too, oppose Liam McArthur’s amendment 2...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I do not support amendment 26, because I consider that it could have adverse consequences for child safety. In an ideal world, it is preferable for a child ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
I want to express my sympathy for Liam McArthur’s amendment 26. Over the years, I have had many constituents and, in fact, others from outwith my constituenc...
Ash Denham
SNP
I support amendments 9, 10 and 11, and I am grateful to Rhoda Grant for the constructive engagement that we have had on the subject. Those amendments make te...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
Members will all have dealt with cases in which contact has been used to perpetrate abuse, with disastrous consequences for the abused partner and their chil...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Group 3 is on the disclosure of information. Amendment 36, in the name of Liam McArthur, is grouped with amendment 46.
Liam McArthur
LD
Amendment 36 and my more substantive amendment 46 respond to concerns that were raised with the committee at stage 1 that, at present, intimate and highly se...
Liam Kerr
Con
We will vote against both amendments in the group. Amendment 36 is a function of amendment 46, so I will deal with the latter in depth. Our vote against amen...
Ash Denham
SNP
I support amendments 36 and 46. I am grateful to Liam McArthur for the constructive engagement that we have had on the subject, and I am pleased that a conse...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank the minister for her support and her explanation of the basis for it. I thank Liam Kerr for his comments and for engaging in debate on my amendments....
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The question is, that amendment 36 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
There will be a division. As this is the first division of the afternoon, I will suspend proceedings and we will have a short technical break, not only to su...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Colleagues, we are going to resume proceedings. We are on group 3, on disclosure of information, and Liam McArthur has moved amendment 36. Members indicated...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The result of the division is: For 86, Against 30, Abstentions 1. Amendment 36 agreed to.