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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2020

12 Mar 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I am pleased to take part in this debate on the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. I start by commending Gillian Martin and colleagues on the ECCLR Committee for their scrutiny work, and I thank all those who have supported their efforts, particularly those who have provided written and oral evidence at stage 1.

The Scottish Liberal Democrats strongly back the principles of the bill, and many of the measures that it proposes, not least the introduction of what has become known as Finn’s law.

As Battersea Dogs & Cats Home and others have reminded us, Scotland has one of the lowest tariffs of sentence in Europe for animal cruelty. Twelve months in prison, plus a fine and a ban on keeping animals, for the worst act of animal cruelty compares badly with five years for crimes such as fly-tipping. The comparison does not reflect well on our justice system, nor does it reflect public attitudes towards crimes of animal and wildlife cruelty. The case for reform is therefore compelling. The bill seeks to bring in such reform by increasing the maximum available penalties for cruelty and causing unnecessary suffering to wild or domestic animals.

As OneKind has pointed out, establishing the principle of penalising wildlife offences at the same level as offences against domestic animals is both significant and very welcome. So too, I think, is the point that has been made by OneKind about the need to make a distinction between those acting perhaps out of ignorance, or a lack of capacity, and those who, as OneKind suggests, should know better. It is not unreasonable for courts to take a particularly dim view of individuals who perpetrate acts of cruelty or cause unnecessary suffering of animals in the course of their employment or business. Breeders, farmers, and gamekeepers can rarely argue with any credibility that they are somehow ignorant of the law.

In supporting an increase to up to five years’ imprisonment for the most serious cases of cruelty and abuse, the Law Society of Scotland helpfully clarified that the benefit is in the extent to which that broadens the range of prosecutorial options. That will allow certain offences to be tried on indictment, where circumstances merit it, and will potentially also increase police powers in the detection of certain more serious crimes.

As well as allowing for more appropriate sentencing in some instances, I hope and expect that the measures in the bill will act as a more effective deterrent. Obviously, the ambition is to see a reduction in cases overall, including a reduction in the number of individuals who reoffend. In that context, I was particularly struck by OneKind’s comments about the potential for alternative approaches. At a time when our prisons are full to bursting, when all the evidence tells us that short prison sentences are less effective in reducing rates of reoffending than community-based measures, this area seems ripe for making use of alternative and more effective approaches.

Community payback orders are already used widely to deal with animal welfare cases, but perhaps not enough attention is given to using them to deliver lasting behavioural change. That is in line with the Poustie review, which recommended

“That wildlife crime offenders should be required to attend retraining courses, including courses on empathy where appropriate”.

However, Poustie went on to warn that

“This would require establishing that such courses are available and raising awareness of such courses amongst the judiciary.”

As the Justice Committee has heard repeatedly over recent years, that is a common refrain when it comes to community-based measures.

The investment that is needed to increase capacity and raise awareness is far less costly than continuing with custodial sentences and high rates of reoffending. I hope the ECCLR Committee will look at how the bill might be amended at stage 2 to broaden sentencing options further, including, for the reasons that Mark Ruskell laid out, by using restorative justice.

I note the committee’s support for an extension of vicarious liability provisions. I was a member of the committee that considered the Wildlife and Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, which first brought in vicarious liability provisions. The previous convener of that committee swung effortlessly into the role of minister before bringing forward the proposals that the committee was scrutinising. Those proposals were intended to respond to the persistent and egregious persecution of raptors and birds of prey.

Notwithstanding Mark Ruskell’s concerns about the lack of prosecutions, I believe that the measure has had some success as a deterrent. However, the painful truth is that the illegal poisoning and persecution of many of our iconic species continues at shameful levels. That helps to explain the conclusions that Professor Werritty reached in his report on the case for licensing. I think there is an argument for looking at how vicarious liability might sensibly be extended to other types of wildlife crime.

I am not yet persuaded on the argument for extending the powers of the SSPCA. That was another debate that we had at the time of the WANE bill’s passage through Parliament. I was sympathetic to the frustrations and difficulties in gathering evidence, and indeed about the capacity of police officers to cover the ground in a timely fashion. I also recognise the apparent anomalies in the powers that SSPCA officers have in responding to complaints of cruelty towards domestic animals compared to reports of wildlife crime incidents.

Nevertheless, I remain uneasy about an extension of SSPCA powers. My mind is not closed to the idea, but the implications—and knock-on consequences—of going down that route need very careful consideration. I believe a task force would be well placed to give that consideration.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-21200, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powe...
The Minister for Rural Affairs and the Natural Environment (Mairi Gougeon) SNP
I am delighted to present the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill to the chamber and to introduce these important propos...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and the Scottish Government’s action to give enhanced protection from harm to animals and wildlife. The minister mentioned farm animals. ...
Mairi Gougeon SNP
I thank Emma Harper for her intervention and congratulate her on all the work that she has done on tackling that important issue. I am happy to commit to mee...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
Will the Government introduce regulations on performance animals in the current session of Parliament?
Mairi Gougeon SNP
I will look at that specific issue and will get back to the member on it. We also intend the new regulations to give effect to Lucy’s law—a measure to preve...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I invite Gillian Martin to speak on behalf of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee. 15:03
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
On behalf of my colleagues on the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, I open by saying that we welcome the bill and support its aim to inc...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I am pleased to lead the debate for the Scottish Conservatives, given that I am a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, which ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
As the member said, that is an excellent provision, which follows a huge campaign led by PC Wardell and so many others, with more than 56,000 signatures on m...
Finlay Carson Con
I thank the member for that intervention. I agree, and we look forward to stage 2, when we will make sure that the bill fulfils everybody’s expectations of p...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour robustly welcomes heavier sentences—of up to five years in prison and unlimited fines—for serious animal and wildlife crimes. We are supporti...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
On the issue of enforcement, the bill proposes allowing animals to be rehomed without a court order, but does Claudia Beamish agree that one positive measure...
Claudia Beamish Lab
I absolutely agree. The SSPCA has highlighted that animals can have to wait for a decision on their fate for weeks, months or sometimes years, so that is of ...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I welcome the introduction of the bill to Parliament. The Greens will of course back its general principles at stage 1. As the convener of the Environment, C...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
What evidence did the committee see that empathy training has any impact? The evidence seemed to be ambiguous.
Mark Ruskell Green
That is the nature of the chicken-and-egg scenario that we are in. We have been unable to roll out empathy training in relation to animal cruelty despite the...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am pleased to take part in this debate on the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of the Scottish Liberal De...
Claudia Beamish Lab
Will the member accept an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
Do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Oh, why not?
Claudia Beamish Lab
Could the member explain why he is uneasy about the alteration of powers, especially in view of what Mark Ruskell said and of the fact that the SSPCA has sai...
Liam McArthur LD
Claudia Beamish raises a legitimate question. I sympathise with some of the anomalies that Mark Ruskell has outlined, but I recall from the debates that we h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Please keep speeches to six minutes. I have a tiny bit of time in hand, but do not go overboard. 15:43
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased that the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill has been brought to the chamber. I thank OneKind, Battersea Do...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I have spent several years campaigning to improve animal welfare in Scotland, and there is much to welcome in the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protection...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a wee bit more time in hand now. If any members would like to offer or take interventions, I can allow time for that. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest, as I am a member of the League Against Cruel Sports, the deputy convener of the cross-party group on animal welfare and Scottish Envir...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and the stage 1 report by our colleagues in the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee. I thought that the report was extre...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I thank the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee and its convener for all their hard work in putting together the recommendations that are s...