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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2020

12 Mar 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Carson, Finlay Con Galloway and West Dumfries Watch on SPTV

I thank the member for that intervention. I agree, and we look forward to stage 2, when we will make sure that the bill fulfils everybody’s expectations of protecting service dogs.

We must also make it clear that, rightly or wrongly, the bill does not cover many outstanding issues: for example, issues related to the recent Bonomy review, dog control and the licensing of animal breeding, pet sales and animal sanctuaries. We should have undertaken a review of the entire Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 to include some of those issues, but we are where we are.

Although the bill strengthens sentencing for animal cruelty offences and tackles the subject of animal welfare, I refer members to the contribution that I made at the Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee at this time last year, on the review of the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010, which was introduced a decade ago. I put forward the case that a host of members’ bills relate to the subject of animals and there is still the potential for all those separate pieces of legislation to become complicated, particularly in how they interact. Rather than there being a lengthy process for multiple members’ bills, the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill could have gone further and been an overarching piece of legislation on animal cruelty.

It is 14 years since this Parliament passed the previous major piece of legislation on animal welfare and cruelty in 2006. This bill is long overdue, and we need to introduce new penalties for those who continue to cause pain and suffering to animals and wildlife. That is backed up by the fact that 99.4 per cent of respondents to the consultation agreed with the proposals to introduce tougher sentencing.

However, it is important to note that the legislation before us does not create any new offences. The overarching positive of the new legislation is that it allows greater flexibility in punishing offenders, whether that is through lengthier jail sentences or unlimited fines. The fact that the current legislation allows for maximum punishments of only 12 months has done little to deter or adequately punish the offenders who carry out these crimes.

Battersea Dogs and Cats Home’s welcome briefing ahead of today’s debate highlights that, between 2011 and 2016, 522 people were convicted of animal cruelty offences, yet only 45 per cent of those convicted received sentences of more than six months.

The committee raised the issue of sentencing guidelines for wildlife crime. Battersea and the Law Society of Scotland point out that, following the passing of this legislation, it would be helpful if the sentencing guidelines were also updated. That would strengthen our courts systems and enable them to have a uniform approach when it comes to dealing with animal welfare and wildlife crimes.

The Law Society also pointed out that sentencing for wildlife crimes can be different from other crimes when it comes to assessing culpability, harm and other public policy guidelines; again, that strengthens the need to update sentencing guidelines. We need clarity on the way that certain wildlife crimes are viewed. As Gillian Martin mentioned, the likes of destroying a single badger sett needs to be considered in light of the long-term impact on the colony.

The independent Scottish Sentencing Council—and rightly, not politicians—has the responsibility for developing sentencing guidelines but, during the progression of the bill, we welcome further discussions with the Scottish Government on what would be the best way to update those guidelines.

The Scottish Conservatives are also supportive of the principle of fixed-penalty notices, which are outlined in the bill as a further deterrent. As the ECCLR Committee noted, that would give authorities a greater degree of flexibility in determining proportionate penalties. However, those notices should be delivered only for minor and technical offences where no harm has come to animals. I would welcome a commitment from the minister to bring more clarity around the notices and details of the stage 2 amendments that she intends to introduce.

The Scottish Government’s consultation on fixed-penalty notices received a positive response; 61.4 per cent of respondents agreed that they should be brought in, and the 32 local authorities were in unanimous agreement. However, we need to ensure that people face the consequences of their criminality, and I would like the Government to reflect on how many of these notices it estimates will be served and how many will, potentially, go unpaid.

On notices, I would like to raise concerns about how the information will be held and shared between relevant authorities. Currently, there is no one central register in which to hold the information, and the committee recognises that there needs to be more joined-up thinking when it comes to intelligence sharing. That information sharing would help to track patterns of animal abuse. As a member for a rural constituency—Galloway and West Dumfries—it is clear to me that animal welfare and wildlife crimes are linked to other crimes, including domestic abuse and other criminal activity. That strengthens the need for sophisticated intelligence gathering.

I agree with Battersea’s position on the issue. Information on convictions, sentences, disqualifications and so on should be held in a database and shared with the relevant authorities. We will seek to strengthen the bill with amendments at stage 2 to give clarity and reassurance around who is party to that sensitive information. Having access to information in order to identify convicted offenders is a vital part of the bill, but it must be done in the right way.

Although there has been some increase in police resources, I still have concerns because in order to ensure that the increased penalties act as a deterrent, we must also ensure that the chances of being caught and convicted are increased. We can do that by giving more resources and support to wildlife crime officers to catch those offenders. I am open to the SSPCA’s suggestion that a taskforce should be set up to review the extension of wildlife powers and overall enforcement when it comes to tackling wildlife crime in Scotland. I would also welcome further discussions with the Scottish Government in order to increase the resources that are available to those who support the tackling of wildlife crime.

In England and Wales, we have already seen the welcome introduction of Finn’s law to protect police dogs and horses who serve alongside our officers. As we heard earlier, my colleague Liam Kerr has done a tremendous amount of work to ensure that that law will be extended to Scotland by its becoming part of the bill. I pay tribute to his efforts alongside those of many other campaigning groups and individuals, such as PC Dave Wardell.

The bill is long overdue. It will ensure that those who continue to commit painful and cruel crimes against animals know that they will be dealt with by the full force of the law. It is welcome to see the Scottish Government deliver on its commitment to that, ensuring that all parts of the United Kingdom have legislation that cracks down on wildlife crime. Although there is scope to bring forward amendments to the bill at stage 2, in principle, the Scottish Conservatives welcome the legislation.

15:22  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-21200, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powe...
The Minister for Rural Affairs and the Natural Environment (Mairi Gougeon) SNP
I am delighted to present the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill to the chamber and to introduce these important propos...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and the Scottish Government’s action to give enhanced protection from harm to animals and wildlife. The minister mentioned farm animals. ...
Mairi Gougeon SNP
I thank Emma Harper for her intervention and congratulate her on all the work that she has done on tackling that important issue. I am happy to commit to mee...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
Will the Government introduce regulations on performance animals in the current session of Parliament?
Mairi Gougeon SNP
I will look at that specific issue and will get back to the member on it. We also intend the new regulations to give effect to Lucy’s law—a measure to preve...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I invite Gillian Martin to speak on behalf of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee. 15:03
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
On behalf of my colleagues on the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, I open by saying that we welcome the bill and support its aim to inc...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I am pleased to lead the debate for the Scottish Conservatives, given that I am a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, which ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
As the member said, that is an excellent provision, which follows a huge campaign led by PC Wardell and so many others, with more than 56,000 signatures on m...
Finlay Carson Con
I thank the member for that intervention. I agree, and we look forward to stage 2, when we will make sure that the bill fulfils everybody’s expectations of p...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour robustly welcomes heavier sentences—of up to five years in prison and unlimited fines—for serious animal and wildlife crimes. We are supporti...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
On the issue of enforcement, the bill proposes allowing animals to be rehomed without a court order, but does Claudia Beamish agree that one positive measure...
Claudia Beamish Lab
I absolutely agree. The SSPCA has highlighted that animals can have to wait for a decision on their fate for weeks, months or sometimes years, so that is of ...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I welcome the introduction of the bill to Parliament. The Greens will of course back its general principles at stage 1. As the convener of the Environment, C...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
What evidence did the committee see that empathy training has any impact? The evidence seemed to be ambiguous.
Mark Ruskell Green
That is the nature of the chicken-and-egg scenario that we are in. We have been unable to roll out empathy training in relation to animal cruelty despite the...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am pleased to take part in this debate on the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of the Scottish Liberal De...
Claudia Beamish Lab
Will the member accept an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
Do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Oh, why not?
Claudia Beamish Lab
Could the member explain why he is uneasy about the alteration of powers, especially in view of what Mark Ruskell said and of the fact that the SSPCA has sai...
Liam McArthur LD
Claudia Beamish raises a legitimate question. I sympathise with some of the anomalies that Mark Ruskell has outlined, but I recall from the debates that we h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Please keep speeches to six minutes. I have a tiny bit of time in hand, but do not go overboard. 15:43
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased that the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Bill has been brought to the chamber. I thank OneKind, Battersea Do...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I have spent several years campaigning to improve animal welfare in Scotland, and there is much to welcome in the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protection...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a wee bit more time in hand now. If any members would like to offer or take interventions, I can allow time for that. 15:53
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest, as I am a member of the League Against Cruel Sports, the deputy convener of the cross-party group on animal welfare and Scottish Envir...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and the stage 1 report by our colleagues in the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee. I thought that the report was extre...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I thank the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee and its convener for all their hard work in putting together the recommendations that are s...